Hi Rob,

On Sep 7, 2011, at 4:59 PM, Rob Weir wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 7:57 PM, Dave Fisher <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Hi Dennis,
>> 
>> I am under impression that the license for everything on OOo is PDL, yet 
>> almost nothing fulfills the terms.
>> 
>> Copyrights are with the Initial Writer. If I can find an Initial Writer I 
>> will mark it - pretty much only in <META> tags although that is whose OOo 
>> back in 2000/2002 created or changed the page or some lists in some places.
>> 
>> As far as copyright where there is no identified Initial Writer should we:
>> 
>> (1) Have no copyright.
>> (2) Put the ASF copyright in place.
>> (3) Put an Oracle copyright on it.
>> (4) Put an OpenOffice.org copyright on it.
>> 
>> We can't do (3) we're not Oracle. We should stop doing (2).
>> 
>> Unless there is an argument in one direction or another I'll do (1) by Lazy 
>> Consensus.
>> 
> 
> What does it mean to "do (1)"?  Are you saying to remove the notice in
> the appendix?

No, I am not touching the PDL license. I mean that on pages where I cannot find 
a filled an initial writer to acknowledge with their copyright, I will have no 
copyright, not even the Apache copyright. If we cannot ascertain the copyright 
holder then no copyright exists.

That's where I am now.

> 
> 
>> I recommend that as we replace pages with AOOo policies that we create 
>> mdtext replacements as fresh files.

Regards,
Dave

>> 
>> On Sep 7, 2011, at 4:11 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>> 
>>> Dave,
>>> 
>>> It would seem that these (few, I believe we're told) can be handled the 
>>> same as unclear provenance anywhere in the code base and its dependencies.
>>> 
>>> The ideal time to clean these up would be when the site is under the 
>>> OpenOffice.org domain name but actually hosted on Apache infrastructure.  
>>> That gives complete ability to make all of the adjustments that are needed, 
>>> including the numerous minor ones to connect to the Bugzilla, etc.
>>> 
>>> I'm not clear how migration of the wiki is impacted, unless you mean the 
>>> proposed movement of material now on static web pages into the wiki?
>> 
>> That is my concern. Kay will need to assure that we know which wiki pages 
>> came in as "PDL" as I think they'll need to stay that way.
>> 
>>> 
>>> Exactly where are you finding these PDL license notices?  The first one I 
>>> found was on the "Open Office.org 3 Installation Guide", a PDF (or ODT) 
>>> reachable from <http://download.openoffice.org/common/instructions.html>.  
>>> If we *don't touch it* can't it be retained until a permissively-licenses 
>>> alternative is needed?  I don't see a reason to be concerned that the 
>>> authors/contributors did not properly execute the instructions of the 
>>> license they have offered.
>> 
>> That's not the concern, the concern is if StarOffice, Sun, and/or Oracle 
>> lost the paperwork. I suppose should we be presented with a copy of the PDL 
>> from an Initial Writer then we fix the issue.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>>> 
>>> - Dennis
>>> 
>>> RELAXED RETAIN, SUPPLEMENT, AND REPLACE SCENARIO
>>> 
>>> If the notices are always in standalone documents such as the Installation 
>>> Guide, I don't see any problem making them available the same way they are 
>>> now.  They should simply be left intact.  They can be replaced by 
>>> non-derivative replacements later, when there are Apache OOo releases that 
>>> require different information.  I don't see why we have to hurry.  
>>> Instructions for existing releases remain valuable to keep around.  I 
>>> suggest preserving them right where they are, where people expect to find 
>>> them.
>>> 
>>> When there are releases from Apache OOo, supplementary documents could be 
>>> offered.  That would be another way to provide specific information 
>>> applicable to later releases.  I see considerable time before these 
>>> PDL-licensed documents need to be supplanted. They might be retained for a 
>>> very long time.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> - Dennis
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Dave Fisher [mailto:[email protected]]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 14:33
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Subject: Re: Concerns about all PDL website material
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sep 7, 2011, at 2:16 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 4:44 PM, Dave Fisher <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> I am stuck on a licensing issue with the OpenOffice.org website and I 
>>>>> begin to doubt if can do much with it other than rehost and correct 
>>>>> obvious changes in policy.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Please look at http://www.openoffice.org/licenses/PDL.html
>>>>> 
>>>>> (Whether the PDL is category A for Apache is a follow up, but there is no 
>>>>> point without resolving the following.)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Specifically look at:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Required Notices.
>>>>>> You must duplicate the notice in the Appendix in each file of the 
>>>>>> Documentation. If it is not possible to put such notice in a particular 
>>>>>> Documentation file due to its structure, then You must include such 
>>>>>> notice in a location (such as a relevant directory) where a reader would 
>>>>>> be likely to look for such a notice, for example, via a hyperlink in 
>>>>>> each file of the Documentation that takes the reader to a page that 
>>>>>> describes the origin and ownership of the Documentation. If You created 
>>>>>> one or more Modification(s) You may add your name as a Contributor to 
>>>>>> the notice described in the Appendix.
>>>>>> You must also duplicate this License in any Documentation file (or with 
>>>>>> a hyperlink in each file of the Documentation) where You describe 
>>>>>> recipients' rights or ownership rights.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> and
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Appendix
>>>>>> Public Documentation License Notice
>>>>>> The contents of this Documentation are subject to the Public 
>>>>>> Documentation License Version 1.0 (the "License"); you may only use this 
>>>>>> Documentation if you comply with the terms of this License. A copy of 
>>>>>> the License is available at __________________[Insert hyperlink].
>>>>>> The Original Documentation is _________________. The Initial Writer of 
>>>>>> the Original Documentation is ___________ Copyright (C)_________[Insert 
>>>>>> year(s)]. All Rights Reserved. (Initial Writer 
>>>>>> contact(s):________________[Insert hyperlink/alias]).
>>>>>> Contributor(s): ______________________________________.
>>>>>> Portions created by ______ are Copyright (C)_________[Insert year(s)]. 
>>>>>> All Rights Reserved. (Contributor contact(s):________________[Insert 
>>>>>> hyperlink/alias]).
>>>>>> NOTE: The text of this Appendix may differ slightly from the text of the 
>>>>>> notices in the files of the Original Documentation. You should use the 
>>>>>> text of this Appendixrather than the text found in the Original 
>>>>>> Documentation for Your Modifications.
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Does it ever actually require that someone fill in the blanks in the
>>>> Appendix?  I see that it requires one to duplicate the notice in the
>>>> appendix.  And it permits (but does not require) initial writers and
>>>> contributors to add their names to the Appendix.
>>> 
>>> If no one seems to ever provide this information then what can we assume? 
>>> If there is no Initial Writer then who holds the copyright? Where's the 
>>> paperwork? Where does that leave us? Square one on the website and anything 
>>> derived from PDL?
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Dave
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> I can find no answer to the question about who are the initial writers 
>>>>> and further contributors are for all most all web pages. There are some 
>>>>> that have meta tags, but that is not following the terms.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Can anyone provide help here? Do most pages have an "INitial Writer" and 
>>>>> "Contributor" of Oracle Corporation?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Would we need to see if the archives from prior to the kenai migration 
>>>>> have enough history to determine "Initial Writers" and "Contributors"?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Where are these appendices?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I don't see any point in working on the OOo website or transfers to MWiki 
>>>>> or CWiki without clarification.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Dave
>>> 
>> 
>> 

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