On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 4:33 PM, John Boyle <[email protected]> wrote: > On 10/19/2011 12:21 PM, Rob Weir wrote: >> >> On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 2:54 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton >> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Concerning subscriptions to many lists in order to make announcements, >>> etc., I think if you have an OpenOffice.org ID, it will go rather smoothly. >>> You can then use the web pages that provide subscribe buttons for blocks of >>> lists and work rather quickly. The archive view (useful in knowing how >>> [in]active a list is) also has a form for sending a message to the >>> just-subscribed list. >>> >>> There may be some of these lists where the project is considered private >>> and subscription is moderated. I know there are lists, such as >>> announcement@ OO.o where the posts are also moderated. >>> >> FWIW, I'm only looking at "community" discussion lists. I'm not >> touching any uni-directional "utility" lists, like ones that echo bug >> reports, commit notifications, etc. >> >>> Here are the www mailing >>> lists:<http://openoffice.org/projects/www/lists>. You must be logged in to >>> see the Subscribe buttons and other information. To make a post, go to the >>> archive, open any message, and then select Reply to List in the little >>> pull-down on the form. >>> >>> The Projects mailing lists are on the Projects A-Z tab >>> of<http://openoffice.org/projects>. Each project has its own page for >>> managing all of its subscriptions, subscribing, etc. (Again, I think you >>> must be logged in to OpenOffice.org to see everything that is on these >>> pages.) >>> >>> - Dennis >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Rob Weir [mailto:[email protected]] >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 05:57 >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [Proposal] Shutting down legacy OOo mailing lists >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Kay Schenk<[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> On 10/17/2011 09:20 AM, Rob Weir wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 11:57 AM, Dave Fisher<[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 17, 2011, at 8:45 AM, Rob Weir wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 11:35 AM, Dave >>>>>>> Fisher<[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I like your proposal. I have some comments inline. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Oct 16, 2011, at 3:12 PM, Rob Weir wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm making a proposal now to shut down the legacy OOo mailing >>>>>>>>> lists and direct the existing subscribers to one of the AOOo >>>>>>>>> mailing lists. I realize that this is not the solution that >>>>>>>>> many of us would prefer, but I believe that it is the best >>>>>>>>> way forward that anyone is willing to volunteer to lead. >>>>>>>>> Please delight me by proving me wrong on this, by objecting >>>>>>>>> this this proposal *and volunteering to do an alternative >>>>>>>>> migration*. But this approach is more graceful than the >>>>>>>>> default, if we do nothing, of just having the lists just go >>>>>>>>> down one day and not recover. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Proposal: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If not one objects and offers to lead a different transition >>>>>>>>> plan, in one week I will do the following: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1) Make a list of all public legacy OOo mailing lists that >>>>>>>>> have received at least 5 non-spam email in 2011. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2) Publish that list on the wiki, along with : >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> a) the language predominately spoken on the list, if not >>>>>>>>> English >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> b) the recommended AOOo list that existing subscribers should >>>>>>>>> be pointed to. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> c) the list's OOo/Kenai project. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> No objections to having that info on the wiki, but I don't see >>>>>>> where that info helps with the migration. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> At the end of the week the ML list should be incorporated in >>>>>>>> the OOo properties that Dennis and I are "noodling" over. >>>>>>>> (Language is another property.) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 3) I will then draft, in English, a post to be send to the >>>>>>>>> above lists. >>>> >>>> Some of the lists in question may be moderated. Hopefully you/we won't >>>> run >>>> into any issues about that. >>>> >>> Hi Kay, >>> >>> Could you explain what the issue would be here? I was assuming I >>> would join each of the mailing lists, in order to send the >>> notification post. I'd then be there on the list to also answer any >>> questions. Are there lists that I cannot subscribe to without >>> moderator approval? Do you know which ones? >>> >>> -Rob >>> >>> >>>> The post will talk about the overall effort of >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> the migration to Apache, the specific migration of the >>>>>>>>> mailing lists, and invite the subscribers to stay informed >>>>>>>>> and to participate in the new Apache lists. Information on >>>>>>>>> how to subscribe will be provided. A shutdown date, for the >>>>>>>>> legacy lists will be included, two weeks from the posting >>>>>>>>> date. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It would be good to co-ordinate this message with a general >>>>>>>> timeline for the OOo migration. We should be clear about what >>>>>>>> is NOT being migrated and what is possible if the community >>>>>>>> disagrees.. >>>> >>>> Yes. We definitely need to work on such a statement (wiki page) >>>> >>>>>>> Great. If we have a good statement on overall migration, we can >>>>>>> include that. Or if it is still "work in progress" I can link >>>>>>> a wiki page where the latest info can be found. But there is no >>>>>>> technical requirement for us to figure everything out before we >>>>>>> move forward on independent pieces that we do understand. We've >>>>>>> done that already in other areas, like source code, issue >>>>>>> tracking, and soon the forums. And in general, it is to our >>>>>>> benefit to move ahead with the pieces we do understand, >>>>>>> especially communications vehicles, so we're not caught in a bad >>>>>>> situation if the legacy servers unexpectedly became unavailable. >>>>>>> It is prudent to ensure that we have the main means of >>>>>>> communication solidly on Apache servers sooner rather than >>>>>>> later. >>>>>> >>>>>> It will certainly be a work in progress, the more the ML changes >>>>>> are put in the context of the total migration the better. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 4) I will invite volunteers to translate the draft post into >>>>>>>>> other languages. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 5) I, and whatever volunteers wish to help, will send the >>>>>>>>> posts to the lists. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 6) The note will be repeated a week later. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 7) After two weeks we request via Oracle that the Kenai >>>>>>>>> admins close the lists, per: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://kenai.com/projects/help/pages/ManageProject#MailingLists >>>>>>>> >>>> [ this para is from Dave's response. I don't know why it's not staying >>>> put...sorrry!] >>>> In the three to four weeks that it will take to get to step (7) AOOo and >>>> Apache Infra should have control over the openoffice.org MX records. An >>>> easier alternative would be to decide what MX services we want to >>>> continue >>>> on openoffice.org and do the MX migration at this point. Even if it will >>>> bounce and/or forward email. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'd be opposed to any automatic forwarding of list traffic or >>>>>>> indiscriminate transferring of subscriptions from the legacy >>>>>>> lists. Several of the legacy lists are are over-run by spammers. >>>>>>> An earlier poster said they get 80-120 moderation requests per >>>>>>> day. We have a good opportunity to "clean house" and to leave >>>>>>> the spammers behind. >>>>>> >>>>>> Let's not forget that there are a number of people who make use of >>>>>> their @openoffice.org email address. We owe it to these people to >>>>>> give them some time to react if these are being dropped. There are >>>>>> also implications with BZ - at least in bug ownership and accounts. >>>>>> We've "bikeshedded" on these addresses, we now need a plan. If >>>>>> someone cares enough about openoffice.org personal email addresses >>>>>> we'll need volunteers to work out the details. >>>>>> >>>>> Nothing I've proposed will impact the @openoffice.org mail >>>>> forwarding service. That is an independent issue that we need to >>>>> develop a plan for and communicate. But it is reasonable that when we >>>>> announce mailing list changes that we'll also get questions related >>>>> to the forwarding service. >>>>> >>>>> It makes me think that we would benefit from a single user-facing >>>>> page on the current status of the migration. What has moved, what >>>>> hasn't, what the general plan is. Something with a lot less >>>>> technical detail than we have on the wiki right now. A high level >>>>> summary that we can point users to. >>>>> >>>>> -Rob >>>>> >>>>>> Regards, Dave >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -Rob >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> -- >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> MzK >>>> >>>> "There is no such thing as coincidence." >>>> -- Leroy Jethro Gibbs, Rule #39 >>>> >>> >> > To Rob Weir, et al: I now have the wiki page bookmarked , but as of yet I > had no idea where to look to see what the recommended new user lists or > otherwise will be. I do not have any programming skills, I am basically just > a user of the product. I just happen to think if you're going to do this > combining And translating, that a list should be made of the proposed new > lists.I did not know there were 303 lists associated with OOo! That is a > surprise to me. I am mostly interested in keeping some kind of users list > active, so that I can learn more of how to use the product. I got on the > ooo-dev. list mostly by accident, as I wasn't clear on how to just get on > the new users list. I have stayed on this list, as this way I learned what > you are planning to do with the whole program and it has been very > interesting, although I have had to delete some because it was beyond me and > what I could do. So, can you give me an idea of what the new lists will be > called and how soon will we be forced to change?:-)
John, in my original proposal I said I would put the list on the wiki in a week. That was three days ago. If you check back in around four days I will have more detail. By the way, did you know we already have a users list for Apache OpenOffice.org? You can subscribe by sending an email to [email protected]. You will then receive a confirmation email. When you respond to that confirmation email your subscription will be activated. Let me know if you have any questions. -Rob >
