On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 4:40 PM, Hagar Delest <hagar.del...@laposte.net>wrote:
> Le Sat, 31 Mar 2012 09:57:48 -0400, Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org> a écrit > : > > A) First, since the original poster is not subscribed to the list, he is >> not receiving any of the responses, unless he was explicitly copied on the >> response. >> > > Well, it's part of the channel. There are ways to spot unsubscribed > posters (there are some bugs in TB preventing that, I agree) So up to the > list power users to handle such posters. > On the former OOo mailing list, users were quite used to CC OP when not > subscribed IIRC (and at this time TB was doing a good job at spotting the > headers, ok I'll stop here no TB devs here). > > > > B) If the user does subscribe, they will likely soon be frustrated by >> unrelated questions and answers, but be unable to unsubscribe themselves >> without assistance. >> >> So we all want users to be able to resolve their issues, without >> unnecessary complications. I think the support forums are a much better >> place for users to raise such questions. >> >> What do you think? What is the purpose of this ooo-users list compared >> to >> the support forums? On some project communications we advertise both as >> equal support avenues for users to raise problems. Is that what we should >> be doing? In other words, what is the purpose of this list and how do we >> make that clear to users? >> > > Basically, I'm not sure that redirecting a user to another place (forum > for example) would help, it doesn't answer the question and it adds > frustration (he has to register the forum whereas he was expecting a direct > answer from the list). > > Honestly, I think a large percentage of posts from non-subscribers don't even realize that they are posting to a list. They think they are sending an email to a private support list. In other words, they think it is similar to how they get support for many other software products. Although we say it is a "mailing list" and recently changed that to say "public mailing list" on the website, I don't think that sinks in. If they post to the forums, however, this is clear. The act of registration, of seeing the other posts already there, this sets the context and makes it clear what the user is dealing with. With the mailing list the user starts with zero context. It is just an email address. > What would be the list then? A place for somehow advanced users only? ... > Just saw your post in the mean time, so yes, that's what you want. > Then, the solution is quite simple: forbid any non subscribed user. > But is it really the kind of support the community wants? Some users don't > want to use forums, does it means that they are on their own? > I think the users want to send to a private support address where they will receive a personal response with no extraneous emails. Of course, we don't have that. So what is better for that kind of user? Fool them into thinking that ooo-users is what they want? Or direct them to the forums? Neither is what they really their preference. But I'm not sure we're really helping the average user if we direct them to a mailing list like this. > You're dealing with a low level user base with OOo. The public is not made > of developers used to mailing lists here, they are standard or low > knowledge users. The former list was full of duplicates, the same questions > come again and again, but that's the job. > We have this kind of eternal September in the forum too. We could just > reply "RTFM" or "Google is your friend". But we know that if the user asked > the question, that's because he hasn't RTFM or searched the web or the > forum. So we give the reply and that's all, that's part of the job (it > doesn't prevent to add a note inviting to search the next time). > > I understand. Users don't become smarter just because they are using the forums. But I think the technology makes it easier for them. Once they get beyond the initial registration the experience is quite nice and hard to mess up. The other critical thing is that it is very hard for a single user on the forums to make a miserable situation for all other members. There is not the all-to-all message sending. That alone is a great improvement. (Noting as well that Marco has an idea for how that could be done with mailing lists as well). > Perhaps there are good reasons from our side to be bored with such users > but their situation is special: they got frustrated about the application > (from their point of view) and first they are not in their normal state and > second any reply that doesn't help will be seen as proof that the product > is not user oriented. > > Hagar > > > > ------------------------------**------------------------------**--------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > ooo-users-unsubscribe@**incubator.apache.org<ooo-users-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org> > For additional commands, e-mail: > ooo-users-help@incubator.**apache.org<ooo-users-h...@incubator.apache.org> > >
