I cannot imagine how a folder structure can get lost except by data corruption. In that case anything is lost anyway and a rollback from a backup is needed.
In fact there should not be a folderstructure in the database. There are folder objects which contain a list of references (data) to compositions. Not the compositions itself are in those lists. That would not be possible because a composition can be referenced in more then one folder. But maybe I am missing something Bert Op za 18 aug. 2018 05:40 schreef Dileep V S <[email protected]>: > Very interesting discussion that has helped us get some of our thoughts > clarified. We have started building a virtual folder as a service outside > Ethercis to cover our requirements and are hoping to migrate the structure > into the EHR server at a later date. > > The plan is to cover both the things mentioned in Thomas's response. We > intend to get a list of compositions associated with a folder from this > service and pass it to the AQL to get what we want. > > However, I am not sure how to rebuild the folder structure if it is lost. > We do not have any folder related information inside Compositions and so > the query can only go from folder to the composition and not the other way. > Keeping folder details in Composition may not be a good idea as folder is > meant to be virtual grouping and can have some dynamism around it. Also > same composition can, in theory, be part of multiple folders. There is also > the concept of a folder hierarchy that exists only within the folder > service. > > regards > > Dileep V S > *Founder* > HealtheLife Ventures LLP > m: +91 9632888113 > a: 106, Innovation Centre, IIIT, Electronics City, Bangalore 560100 > w: healthelife.in e: [email protected] > > On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 9:30 PM, Thomas Beale <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> >> The easiest way to think about this question is: if someone trashed the >> Folder structure, could we (some admin app) rebuild it? The answer is >> interesting. It should normally be possible to rebuild the Folder / >> Composition association structure (it's not containment, just referencing), >> but of course, if you stored other information in the Folders, for example >> in the recently SEC-approved other_details structure, then you would lose >> that. >> >> So the Folder approach does two things: >> >> - represents a pre-built query result (the Folder/Composition >> associations) - giving instant access, and avoiding having to construct >> the >> query, which is usually somewhat messy. >> - allows other information to be stored directly about the thing the >> Folder represents, e.g. admission / stay in a facility. >> >> - thomas >> >> On 17/08/2018 16:20, Seref Arikan wrote: >> >> Hi Ian, >> >> When the fact that the Composition is associated to an encounter or >> episode of care is recorded by including a reference to that composition in >> a folder, some clinical context/information related to that composition is >> now stored outside the composition, by means of a refence in a folder >> >> Unless I'm missing an Aql feature that can help, you can no longer select >> those compositions via Aql (since Aql does not support/specify how to >> resolve refs) >> >> If you follow the encounter id approach you mentioned, then you could use >> Aql. >> >> In fact, if Ethercis had support for Folder, Dileep would still not be >> able to get those compositions with a singl query: he'd need to fetchs uids >> from a folder with one query, then perform a second query to get >> compositions in the way I suggested. >> >> I'm probably being unnecessarily picky here, just pointing at the >> difference between approaches and trying to put my finger on any downstream >> issues. I'm not doing a great job of it though :) >> >> On Friday, August 17, 2018, Ian McNicoll <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hi Seref, >>> >>> I'm not sure I understand your concerns here. I think the use case is >>> where there is a need to group compositions by some other higher level >>> construct which usually reflect something like an admission, episode of >>> outpatient care or perhaps a community plan of care. >>> >>> As Dileep has indicated he probably would use folders if Ethercis >>> supported them. Another alternative is to create an Encounter ID for each >>> new encounter (which in Dileep's example, I think I would call an episode >>> of care, and simply tag each composition with that Encounter ID e.g create >>> a cluster archetype to hold this in every Composition/ other_context. I >>> have done that on other projects. So it is a case of looking of all >>> composition with EncounterId = x >>> Now I would probably go down the Folder route, if I could. >>> Ian >>> Dr Ian McNicoll >>> mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859 >>> office +44 (0)1536 414994 >>> skype: ianmcnicoll >>> email: [email protected] >>> twitter: @ianmcnicoll >>> >>> >>> Co-Chair, openEHR Foundation [email protected] >>> Director, freshEHR Clinical Informatics Ltd. >>> Director, HANDIHealth CIC >>> Hon. Senior Research Associate, CHIME, UCL >>> >>> >>> On Fri, 17 Aug 2018 at 13:59, Seref Arikan < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> I'm used to thinking compositions as semantcally self contained units >>>> of information, at the very least using references to other means of >>>> expressing semantics (as in terminologies) >>>> >>>> What you're describing seems to take some clincal semantics out of the >>>> composion and if we have multiple ways of doing that, it may hurt >>>> reusability of queries and data. >>>> >>>> Do you think we can find a way of expressing this semantcs without >>>> losing its trace within the cmposition? >>>> >>>> (Sorry for the typos, on the phone..) >>>> >>>> On Friday, August 17, 2018, Thomas Beale <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> There is a bigger question of how best to model 'encounter' and >>>>> 'admission', which some implementers are doing with Folders, particularly >>>>> DIPS in Norway. I suspect that some version of using Folders (or else some >>>>> kind of tagging, which is semantically equivalent) will be the long term >>>>> approach to doing this. >>>>> >>>>> - thomas >>>>> >>>>> On 17/08/2018 10:54, Dileep V S wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> Can you write an AQL to query only on a list of specific compositions? >>>>> Is there any sample for reference? >>>>> >>>>> I am trying to create the concept of clinical encounters and maintain >>>>> a collection of compositions per encounter. I am using AQL to retrieve >>>>> data >>>>> per encounter and need to pass the corresponding set of compositions. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks in advance >>>>> >>>>> regards >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Thomas Beale >>>>> Principal, Ars Semantica <http://www.arssemantica.com> >>>>> Consultant, ABD Project, Intermountain Healthcare >>>>> <https://intermountainhealthcare.org/> >>>>> Management Board, Specifications Program Lead, openEHR Foundation >>>>> <http://www.openehr.org> >>>>> Chartered IT Professional Fellow, BCS, British Computer Society >>>>> <http://www.bcs.org/category/6044> >>>>> Health IT blog <http://wolandscat.net/> | Culture blog >>>>> <http://wolandsothercat.net/> | The Objective Stance >>>>> <https://theobjectivestance.net/> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> openEHR-technical mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org >>>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> openEHR-technical mailing >> [email protected]http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org >> >> >> -- >> Thomas Beale >> Principal, Ars Semantica <http://www.arssemantica.com> >> Consultant, ABD Project, Intermountain Healthcare >> <https://intermountainhealthcare.org/> >> Management Board, Specifications Program Lead, openEHR Foundation >> <http://www.openehr.org> >> Chartered IT Professional Fellow, BCS, British Computer Society >> <http://www.bcs.org/category/6044> >> Health IT blog <http://wolandscat.net/> | Culture blog >> <http://wolandsothercat.net/> | The Objective Stance >> <https://theobjectivestance.net/> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> openEHR-technical mailing list >> [email protected] >> >> http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org >> >> > _______________________________________________ > openEHR-technical mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org >
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