There is quite a bit that can be done with tools etc. that the audience you describe is familiar with to develop applications that interact with VistA...say in public health etc.... the key is that it will take some effort to understand current reality and how to integrate with it (see the earlier posts re VistA's integration capability). This would actually be very valuable and more challenging than working from a clean slate...
On Wed, 2003-01-08 at 10:14, Heitzso wrote: > I want to clarify my original statement ... > > I'm not making any valuation of vista/m's > value to the health care industry. > > Some oss development occurs in college > cs departments by students wanting to work on > a project that both covers educational needs and > does something useful. Ditto the young professional > programmer casting about for a sandbox to play in > on the side. I don't believe vista/m will pull in resources > from these camps (notice the qualifier 'believe'). > > ... and that may not be important to you ... > > vista/mumps may be a fine sandbox for a doctor/hacker > to play in and do good for the world. And, of course, > if there's money to code in a language then professional > coders will line up to code and collect. > > Another thought ... in the oss world diversity is > considered a good thing in the evolution of software. > Can the participants on this list appreciate/enjoy > the evolution of several systems that might fill > different niches? > > Just trying to take some of the tension out of the > discussion. > > -----Original Message----- > From: George James [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 5:55 AM > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > Subject: RE: re code languages > > > > > > M certainly seems to cause a lot of anxiety in some people. > > > > Latin is only a 'dead' language because it is little used, not because there > is anything intrinsically wrong with it. > > There are many examples of old technology (eg Unix) which has a renaissance > when it fulfils a need. > > If the widespread adoption of VistA were to generate demand for specific > skills then the workforce will quickly fill that demand. > > InterSystems say on their web-site at www.intereystems.com: "Most of the top > hospitals, labs, and healthcare application providers around the world rely > on InterSystems database technology for their IT needs". That means they > are using either some flavour of M or Cach� (which is built on top of the M > database engine anyway). > > Any concerns about the use of M in the health care industry smells very much > like FUD to me. > > Regards > George > > > George James Software > 42-44 High Street > Shepperton > Middlesex TW17 9 AU > United Kingdom > > Tools, Training, Technology > www.georgejames.com > +44-1932-252568 > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Gage [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: 07 January 2003 21:21 > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: re code languages > > > > > > M certainly seems to cause a lot of anxiety in some people. > > > > M as a language is not quite as dead as the patients whose lives are > > being lost each day because the functionality of VistA is restricted > > to the VA. The urgency in the IOM reports (among others) merits > > working with what we have now. Otherwise, I don't think we have > > done our patients a service. What is happening now is that medical > > open source is spinning its wheels (maybe a little traction here and > > there) while Cerner et al attempt to become the "next Microsoft". > > > > I can easily see this list in the future saying to its collective > > self, "Oh, well, we tried, but Cerner really has the best > > functionality and is the only show in town, so why bother?" After > > all, Brian Bray, the founder of the list, has already said that open > > source must follow the taillights of proprietary code. > > > > That would be (remotely) excusable, if VistA didn't exist. But it > > does, and to condemn it to death because it's written in a "dead" > > language takes a lot of patients down with it in the death spiral. > > > > Please note that the VA is not spinning its wheels with VistA. They > > are the first to implement barcode scanning of medications at the > > point of care. Etc. etc. etc. It is very interesting to see Kizer > > on the board of directors of Medsphere. He is definitely a mover and > > shaker. > > > > I admit that if you remove the moral argument then VistA is just > > another program and we can wait. If we were talking about predicting > > the price of grain futures, we certainly wouldn't be talking about M. > > I recognize that. > > > > > > >As a programmer for some 30 years and with a lot > > >of languages under my belt, I'm not interested in > > >learning another language that doesn't move me > > >forward in my career .... I have enough dead languages > > >already in my brain. > > > > > >where I work I push for building (large) components > > >that interconnect through standard APIs (soap/corba/whatever) goal > > >being to allow graceful transitions to future technologies/code/apis > > > > > >I have no illusion that today's fav language won't > > >be eclipsed by the next-great-thing. And for that > > >matter the external API will change as well ... > > >CORBA->SOAP->whatever. But if I've built clean (large) > > >components well it will be easier to evolve, lower > > >long term costs. > > > > > >I'm not against vista/m if it buys you something now. > > >But (imho) you're not going to pull in a lot of > > good-will-oss coders if > > >they're going to work in an older language. That may not be > > important > > >to you ... if your target coders are good-will doctors having fun > > >hacking on the side then m/mumps may be great. But for a > > professional > > >programmer the time spent learning mumps is counter to > > >their development as a professional. > > > > > >java or c# center of action > > >python next tier down possible > > >ruby/eiffel/your-favorite-scripting-language down another tier? > > > > > >btw, I haven't played w/ but watch the GNUe effort > > >and it may be possible to implement a med system in it > > >w/ less effort because it provides a framework > > >http://www.gnuenterprise.org/project/what.php > > >which runs counter to what I said above re languages, > > >but in this case you code templates/schemas and you > > >don't really live as much in language ... just a thought > > > > > >to the extent this email list works on implementations > > >(as opposed to just design/theory) suggest working on > > >one of the modular/componentized oss efforts even if > > >it isn't as complete as a vista now. Need a > > >mechanism for shorter code-test-deploy-evolve cycle. > > >Get a working testbed up and functioning to play w/. > > > > > > > > >and I apologize for any out-of-contextedness in the above > > > > > >Heitzso > > -- +=======================================================+ | Joseph Dal Molin | E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | President | Web: http://www.e-cology.ca | | e-cology Corporation | Phone: 1.416.232.1206 | +=======================================================+
