How timely as I just posted that response and Dalibor's news just arrived in the my inbox within 1 minute ...
#TLDR JDK 9 will arrive 6 months later than expected 23rd March 2017 ... so FX people go to work, really go work. On 1 December 2015 at 17:12, Peter Pilgrim <peter.pilg...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi All > > On 1 December 2015 at 13:27, Johan Vos <johan....@gluonhq.com> wrote: >> Hi Dirk, all, >> >> Although this person from Codename One attacked me a few times before >> (using words like we're selling snake oil), I tried to ignore it. This is >> very uncommon for the Java community. In the Java community, we have >> different views, we prefer different technologies, but we show at least >> some basic respect to other views and we don't insult people. Clearly, this >> isn't the policy inside Codename One. I wonder where they get the time for >> writing negative things about others, rather than writing positive things >> about their own technologies. So although I'm offended, I try to write code >> and keep my customers happy rather than fighting. >> > > I saw this appalling behaviour on the aforementioned blog site. Shai > was hardly diplomatic, especially for an ex-Sun / Oracle wasn't he? > I have heard on that Japanese anecdote BEATING THE GRASS in order to > force the snakes to come out, but I wonder who is the enemy here. > >> But the moment you may lose customers because what others write about a >> technology you want to use, a line is crossed. I keep all options open on >> how to respond, but here are already some thoughts: > > It's a bad as somebody hating Spring Framework, however I think I will > let that rest again, because I already posted a response for that. >> >> * The JavaFX engineers at Oracle (current and past) are doing a fantastic >> job. > > Yes. It also included Brian Goetz and others people who were on the > same mailing list circa 2008 and 2009 with JavaFX Script. > >> >> * Yes, I wish Oracle would spend more resources on JavaFX (and on Java in >> general). >> >> * JavaFX is growing. Gluon is growing. >> > > And many executives can understand that Swing is no longer supported > and there is a technology risk in terms of RECRUITMENT, TRAINING, > MAINTAINABILITY and ROBUSTNESS if they continue to use it. There are > financial services houses such Murex who are Swing based still and > sell solutions to investment banks. These rich GUI solutions inside > the big banks are very unlikely to go HTML5 and web based soon, so the > lead developers in those businesses probably have evaluated JavaFX. > > So I asked Shai what needs to happens in order to cross the divide? > For all you involved in FX, and now that Oracle evangelism, advocacy, > whatever, has all but disappeared, need to come out three (3) > requirements that get the product over the line. > > >> * There are many JavaFX success stories, but unfortunately many of those >> are hidden behind company walls. At Gluon, we have great customers with a >> huge investment in JavaFX that make amazing products. But company policies >> often prohibit us from even mentioning those on our website. This is an >> issue, as I believe many people would be surprised to see who is using >> JavaFX and at what size. I'm not sure how to address this, and it is >> something Peter Pilgrim talked about in a follow-up post as well. >> > > If these products can be exposed in some meaningful way then that > would really help. > > Companies are willing to show these Responsive Web Design, Adaptive > Web Design, HTML5 and latest browser support, and yet this must be > achieve with JavaFX. > > Clearly what is needed is a poster child. Some JavaFX application that > looks simple, does great thing, and work amazing well across all > devices. I wish I knew what that would be. > > >> * JavaFX on Mobile is getting there. Don't believe self-declared and >> aggressive "mobile experts" with a different agenda. I'm one of those >> people working day and night to make this happen. And apart from very few >> exceptions, the Java community has been very supportive to this effort. I >> don't let those exceptions ruining my day or my customers. >> > > Nor should you or anyone else feel deflated. > > Shai is frustrated, obviously, with the mobile story so far. He feels > that the scene graph solution is overkill for the current generation > of smartphone and mobile devices. He reckons the scene graph abilities > are hard to reach under GPU and the native operating system for the > mobile devices. I don't necessarily agree with him, the scene graph > was what sold me on Chris Oliver's original vision on (F3 (form > follows function) precursor to JavaFX 1.0 (Script)). I think that > mobile devices will gain scene graph and better GPU/CPU very soon. > > Johan has taken the mobile solution further with Gluon. At least there > are working JavaFX applications in the app stores. This is better than > 2011 when we were dreaming off the ability to achieve this. > > What is missing on mobile front? Common API for magnetrometry, > gyroscope, media, camera support and of course high performance > graphics? > > >> * There really is a JavaFX eco-system. Oracle is spending resources on it, >> and there are a large number of individuals and companies providing free >> and commercial frameworks, services, trainings, books. >> >> * JavaFX is open source with a business-friendly license. You don't like >> something? Fix it. >> >> Dirk, keep up the good work. I hope your customer realises that there is a >> large community behind JavaFX, with both open-source and commercial >> offerings. They should feel safe using JavaFX. > > > And also now is the time to request changes for JDK 9 whilst it is > still in early access. From the presentations at JavaOne, there will > be only one FX module in the JDK. (There was this thing to do with > DLL or shared runtimes when I was hanging around regularly in 2012 ) > If you don't agree with it, or want to modularise FX in the JDK even > more, then now is the time to act and let Mark Reinhold, Alex Buckley > and Alan Bateman know asap. > >> >> - Johan >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dirk @ Google <dlemmerm...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi there, >>> >>> there has been quite a shake-up in the JavaFX community last week when >>> Shay Almog (Codename One) first responded to a blog of mine ( >>> dlemmermann.wordpress.com) with a lot of negative comments regarding >>> JavaFX and its future. He then followed up with a long blog asking the >>> question „Should Oracle Spring-Clean JavaFX“ ( >>> https://www.codenameone.com/blog/should-oracle-spring-clean-javafx.html < >>> https://www.codenameone.com/blog/should-oracle-spring-clean-javafx.html>). >>> >>> I do understand that it is often a good strategy to not comment on stuff >>> like this because commenting would just draw attention to it, but we have >>> now reached the point where potential customers are questioning the >>> sustainability of a JavaFX-based solution. They are now wondering if JavaFX >>> will still be around in a few years. In my specific case the customer >>> demands an answer from me and my partners within the next week, and if not >>> convincing they will go with something / someone else. We will loose a >>> contract worth around one million dollars because of one blog written by >>> Shay with no follow-up from Oracle. >>> >>> What is needed is an official statement from Oracle / Oracle employees / >>> JavaFX development team, saying that Oracle is still committed to JavaFX >>> and that it will still be around for a while. Can somebody please do that? >>> >>> Dirk >>> >>> >>> > > > > -- > Best wishes > > Peter Pilgrim, > Java Champion / Director P.E.A.T. LTD > > ++++ Scala and Java EE Software Development / Design / Architect > for `BlueChip' enterprises, London, UK ++++ > > I am currently writing ``Digital Java EE 7 Development'' Packt Pub > (September 2015) > > ++++ Digital ++ Finance ++ Adaptation ++ Transformation ++ Software ++++ > > :: http://www.xenonique.co.uk/blog/ :: > :: http://twitter.com/peter_pilgrim :: > :: http://java-champions.java.net/ :: -- Best wishes Peter Pilgrim, Java Champion / Director P.E.A.T. LTD ++++ Scala and Java EE Software Development / Design / Architect for `BlueChip' enterprises, London, UK ++++ I am currently writing ``Digital Java EE 7 Development'' Packt Pub (September 2015) ++++ Digital ++ Finance ++ Adaptation ++ Transformation ++ Software ++++ :: http://www.xenonique.co.uk/blog/ :: :: http://twitter.com/peter_pilgrim :: :: http://java-champions.java.net/ ::
