Hi Ross, I was looking for examples but I could not find any Apache "Foo" project where a project member or 3th party runs a website under the domain name foo.com or foo.de/fr/ru. So I moved the website to webbase-design.de now. openmeetings.de just contains a redirect/info page. We might change that to a valid http-error 301 "moved permanently" to ensure search engines find our new website.
Attribution of the website webbase-design.de should go clearly to the Apache Project and the "impressum" does indicate who has ownership of the trademark "OpenMeetings": http://www.webbase-design.de/impressum/ Sebastian 2012/7/20 Alexei Fedotov <[email protected]> > Great, Ross, thanks for your clarifications. > > -- > With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями, > Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов, > http://dataved.ru/ > +7 916 562 8095 > > > On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Ross Gardler > <[email protected]> wrote: > > On 19 July 2012 13:18, Alexei Fedotov <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Thanks Ross, > >> it would help if particular usages in questions (even if they are not > >> yet complaints) are discussed. We are not lawyers, and examples would > >> be simpler to understand > > > > Absolutely. However the specifics right now are so varied that it is > > clear the maintainer of the openmeetings.de site has not read the > > trademark policy. For example: > > > > "On websites, hyperlinks to the relevant project homepage and to the > > ASF should be added" > > http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/faq/#attribution > > > > I've not conducted a review of the openmeetings.de site, or of any > > other open meetings related site. My goal is not to pick on specific > > items on a single page - that would be unfair. My goal is only to > > raise awareness of the trademark policy so that people can, I hope, > > take appropriate action in their own time. > > > >> I have investigated the following > >> http://www.google.ru/search?q=%22apache%20openmeetings%22 > >> > >> It shows there are few cases we used Apache Openmeetings, which are > >> not covered by examples from the policy. I believe thefollowing cases > >> are fair use, maybe we should avoid some of them. Please advise. > > > > Generally speaking if the PPMC is satisfied with any specific use of > > their marks then the ASF will be. However, the PPMC needs to know what > > is acceptable and what is not. Hence the PPMC members need to know > > what the policy is. hence this thread. The issue with trademarks is > > that if we don't protect them then they are no longer valid. This > > could be damaging to the whole community. > > > > I'm happy to give you my opinion on each case, but I'm speaking only > > as an ASF mentor. I am not a member of the trademarks committee. > > > >> * We commnicated to other open source communities adressing our > >> product as Apache Openmeetings (e.g. jitsi, red5) and trying to build > >> a better ecosystem for us. This is mostly the only case when I openly > >> speak from the face of PPMC outside of Apache mail lists (not > >> mentioning Apache organization PPMC details though). > > > > Strictly speaking it is Apache Openmeetings (incubating) - see > > http://incubator.apache.org/guides/branding.html > > > > However, use in mailing lists etc. is not really the concern here, > > it's in press, websites etc. Furthermore, it's only really necessary > > on first use, just as the Apache part can be dropped after first use. > > > >> * We use Apache Openmeetings instead of "Openmeetings subproject of > >> Apache Incubator" instead. That's too long. Openoffice does the same. > >> If "incubating" is important, we can use it on regular basis. > > > > See above - OpenOffice does, as far as I am aware conform to this policy. > > > >> * The commercial entity offered small incentives to prepare any patch > >> for "Apache Openmeetings" on a developer blog. That was an open > >> proposal. Google does mostly the same thing in GSoC. Also the goal was > >> to strengthen community, not to solve the business tasks. That's > >> sponsorship, and write now we (as a project) don't have a lot of > >> sponsorship. > > > > This is perfectly OK as long as the activity is outside of the ASF. > > That is it's not the ASF offering these incentives it is some third > > party who conforms to the trademark policy in their engagements. The > > ASF does not, and never will, pay for software development. Third > > parties are free to pay for anything they want. > > > >> Consider the quote, > >> Our marks must not be used to disparage the Apache Software > >> Foundation, our projects, members, sponsors, or communities, nor be > >> used in any way to imply ownership, endorsement, or **sponsorship** of > >> any ASF-related project or initiative of any kind. > >> > >> This statement I fail to understand. AFAIK, Microsoft openly sponsors > >> Apache and some particular Apache products. > >> > http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2008/07/microsoft-to-sponsor-of-the-apache-software-foundation/ > > > > Yes, ASF and many organisations sponsor the ASF but they are not > > allowed any special rights over our marks as a result. They do not > > sponsor our projects, they sponsor the foundation so it can provide > > services for *all* our projects not any specific project. Using our > > marks in factual statements is always allowed (no policy we write can > > change that), so MS can say they sponsor the foundation (fact) but > > they cannot say they sponsor Apache Foo since we don't accept > > targetted donations for projects. > > > >> Taking the statement literally, when I raise money for our developers, > >> I cannot refer to the Apache project. > > > > You are raising money for your *developers*. That is fine. You are not > > raising money for the *project*. > > > > So you can say "I will pay developers to work on Apache Foo" but you > > can't say "I sponsor Apache Foo". > > > >> My take on that is to clarify the trademark policy here. > > > > That would be for trademarks@ to do if necessary. > > > > Ross > -- Sebastian Wagner https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock http://www.openmeetings.de http://www.webbase-design.de http://www.wagner-sebastian.com [email protected]
