Peter Tribble wrote:
> I've been following this thread with interest. Let me wear my
> customer hat for a while.
> 
> On 3/28/07, John Plocher <John.Plocher at sun.com> wrote:
>> Stefan Teleman wrote:
>> > 5. Longevity of a PHP release is primarily determined by the feature 
>> set
>> > provided by that particular PHP distro. In other words, if we release a
>> > PHP 5.2.0 with _all_ the extensions enabled and fully integrated into
>> > Solaris, there is very little incentive for a customer to want to
>> > upgrade. "Don't fix it if it ain't broken".
> 
> I agree, up to a point. We've had significant problems with version changes
> in underlying components (java, tomcat) causing application breakage. So
> if it's not broken, we don't change. The snag is that everything pretty 
> well is broken and there is often the need to upgrade to a new version.

Well, yes. Or application <foo> works very well with PHP 5.2.0 but application 
<bluefoo> is miserable with 5.2.0 and happy with 5.3.3 (hypothetically).

This might be a useful argument pro having several versions of PHP available. 
With a little reverse proxy or httpd.conf magic, one could have different 
instances of apache load different versions of PHP.

> (As an aside on the benefits of binary compatibility: the FOSS model
> used by some applications in which new versions introduce bug fixes and
> feature changes simultaneously is a nightmare for production use; it's
> unfortunate that it's becoming commonplace. Unfortunately the notion
> of "no incompatible change" ends up implying "no bug fixes". But we
> all know that already.)
> 
> So we need the ability for those underlying components to support both
> the ability to rapidly update to a new version if desired, and the 
> ability to
> pin a particular version in place for compatibility. And, epecially with 
> zones,
> the ability to do both simultaneously on the same system.
> 
> Isn't 5.2.1 out already? That's what my systems have been running for a 
> month
> or more.

Yes, 5.2.1's been out for a few weeks now but:

http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=40507

I ran into this during my testing of 5.2.1 (both 32- and 64- bit), and it was a 
showstopper. I recently saw that it was fixed in CVS. I assume that 5.2.2 will 
have the fix.

> More generally:
> 
> In the case of php, is that aim to supply php as a language or as an
> apache module? I've never come across it in use except as an apache
> module, so is there any need to put php in the path or php libraries in
> /usr/lib?

There will be the apache module [libphp5.so] + php extensions + php the 
executable/language (cli only). I am very reluctant to build the php cgi 
executable. The advantage of php as an apache module is that it's very easy to 
integrate suhosin (http://www.php-security.org/) -- and we will provide suhosin 
from the first release.

> One thing that causes real problems is connecting application versions to
> specific OS releases. The model where the application is frozen on a
> minor OS release and then a new version anointed at the next minor release
> is unhelpful, indeed harmful. Why should my application be forced to break
> or upgrade because I need to migrate to new hardware or access a new
> OS feature?

I think the fundamental problem stems from the long list of dependencies. If 
Nevada 62 (for example) has integrated a whole bunch of these new libraries 
(dependencies), i think it's safe to assume that they will be there going 
forward.

--Stefan

-- 
Stefan Teleman
Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Stefan.Teleman at Sun.COM


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