On 13/12/13 16:37 +0100, Flavio Percoco wrote:
On 13/12/13 15:53 +0100, Thierry Carrez wrote:Hi everyone,TL;DR: Incubation is getting harder, why not ask efforts to apply for a new program first to get the visibility they need to grow. Long version: Last cycle we introduced the concept of "Programs" to replace the concept of "Official projects" which was no longer working that well for us. This was recognizing the work of existing teams, organized around a common mission, as an integral part of "delivering OpenStack". Contributors to programs become ATCs, so they get to vote in Technical Committee (TC) elections. In return, those teams place themselves under the authority of the TC. This created an interesting corner case. Projects applying for incubation would actually request two concurrent things: be considered a new "Program", and give "incubated" status to a code repository under that program. Over the last months we significantly raised the bar for accepting new projects in incubation, learning from past integration and QA mistakes. The end result is that a number of promising projects applied for incubation but got rejected on maturity, team size, team diversity, or current integration level grounds. At that point I called for some specific label, like "Emerging Technology" that the TC could grant to promising projects that just need more visibility, more collaboration, more crystallization before they can make good candidates to be made part of our integrated releases. However, at the last TC meeting it became apparent we could leverage "Programs" to achieve the same result. Promising efforts would first get their mission, scope and existing results blessed and recognized as something we'd really like to see in OpenStack one day. Then when they are ready, they could have one of their deliveries apply for incubation if that makes sense. The consequences would be that the effort would place itself under the authority of the TC. Their contributors would be ATCs and would vote in TC elections, even if their deliveries never make it to incubation. They would get (some) space at Design Summits. So it's not "free", we still need to be pretty conservative about accepting them, but it's probably manageable. I'm still weighing the consequences, but I think it's globally nicer than introducing another status. As long as the TC feels free to revoke Programs that do not deliver the expected results (or that no longer make sense in the new world order) I think this approach would be fine. Comments, thoughts ?With the above, I'm basically saying that a Queuing ;) program shouldn't exist until there's an integrated team of folks working on queuing. Incubation doesn't guarantees integration and "emerging technology" doesn't guarantees incubation. Both stages mean there's interest about that technology and that we're looking forward to see it being part of OpenStack, period. Each stage probably means a bit more than that but, IMHO, that's the 'community' point of view of those stages. What if we have a TC-managed* Program incubation period? The Program won't be managed by the team working on the emerging technology, nor the team working on the incubated project. Until those projects don't graduate, the program won't be official nor will have the 'rights' of other programs. And if the project fits into another program, then it won't be officially part of it until it graduates.
Since I, most likely, won't make it to tomorrow's TC meeting, I'd like to extend this argument a bit more and make sure I share my thoughts about it. Hopefully they'll be of help. What I'm arguing here is: 1. Programs that are not part of OpenStack's release cycle shouldn't be considered official nor they should have the rights that integrated projects have. 2. I think requesting Programs to exist at the early stages of the project is not necessary. I don't even think incubated projects should have programs. I do agree the project's mission and goals have to be clear but the program should be officially created *after* the project graduates from incubation. The reasoning here is that anything could happen during incubation. For example, a program created for project A - which is incubated - may change to cover a broader mission that will allow a newborn project B to fall under its umbrella, hence my previous proposal of having a incubation stage for programs as well. My proposal is to either not requesting any program to be created for incubated projects / emerging technologies or to have a program called 'Emerging Technologies' were all these projects could fit in. The only difference is that, IMHO, projects under this program should not have all the rights that integrated projects and other programs have, although the program will definitely fall under the TCs authority. For example, projects under this program shouldn't be able to vote on the TCs elections. Hope this make sense and that is of help during the upcoming discussions. Cheers, FF -- @flaper87 Flavio Percoco
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