Steven, Fair point.
Thanks, Dims On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 11:04 PM, Steven Dake (stdake) <std...@cisco.com> wrote: > Dims, > > This isn’t any of my particular business except it could affect emerging > technology projects (which I find important to OpenStack’s future) negatively > – so I thought I’d chime in. > > A lack of activity in a specs repo doesn’t mean much to me. For example, as > Kolla was an emerging project we didn’t use any specs process at all (or very > rarely). There is a reason behind this. Now that Kolla is stable and > reliable and we feel we are not an emerging project, we plan to make use of a > specs repo starting in Ocata. > > I have no particular concerns with the other commentary – but please don’t > judge a project by activity or lack of activity in one repo of its > deliverables. Judge it holistically (You are judging holistically. I > believe a lack of one repo’s activity shouldn’t be part of that judgement). > > Regards > -steve > > > On 9/21/16, 2:08 PM, "Davanum Srinivas" <dava...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Jakub, > > Please see below. > > On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Jakub Pavlik <jakub.pav...@tcpcloud.eu> > wrote: > > Hello all, > > > > it took us 2 years of hard working to get these official. > OpenStack-Salt is > > now used by around 40 production deployments and it is focused very on > > operation and popularity is growing. You are removing the project week > after > > one of top contributor announced that they will use that as part of > > solution. We made a mistakes, however I do not think that is reason to > > remove us. I do no think that quality of the project is measured like > this. > > Our PTL got ill and did not do properly his job for last 3 weeks, but > this > > can happen anybody. > > > > It is up to you. If you think that we are useless for community, then > > remove us and we will have to continue outside of this community. > However > > growing successful use cases will not be under official openstack > community, > > which makes my feeling bad. > > Data points so far are: > 1. No response during Barcelona planning for rooms > 2. Lack of candidates for PTL election > 3. No activity in the releases/ repository hence no entries in > https://releases.openstack.org/ > 4. Meetings are not so regular? > http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_salt/2016/ (supposed > to be weekly) > 5. Is the specs repo really active? > http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/openstack-salt-specs/ is the > work being done elsewhere? > 6. Is there an effort to add stuff to the CI jobs running on openstack > infrastructure? (can't seem to find much > > http://codesearch.openstack.org/?q=salt&i=nope&files=zuul%2Flayout.yaml&repos=project-config) > > I'll stop here and switch to #openstack-salt channel to help work you > all through if there is a consensus/willingness from the > openstack-salt team that there's significant work to be done. If you > think you are better off not on the governance, that would be your > call as well. > > Thanks, > Dims > > > Thanks, > > > > Jakub > > > > > > On 21.9.2016 21:03, Doug Hellmann wrote: > >> > >> Excerpts from Filip Pytloun's message of 2016-09-21 20:36:42 +0200: > >>> > >>> On 2016/09/21 13:23, Doug Hellmann wrote: > >>>> > >>>> The idea of splitting the contributor list comes up pretty regularly > >>>> and we rehash the same suggestions each time. Given that what we > >>>> have now worked fine for 57 of the 59 offical teams (the Astara > >>>> team knew in advance it would not have a PTL running, and Piet had > >>>> some sort of technical issue submitting his candidacy for the UX > >>>> team), I'm not yet convinced that we need to make large-scale changes > >>>> to our community communication standard practices in support of the > >>>> 2 remaining teams. > >>>> > >>>> That's not to say that the system we have now is perfect, but we > >>>> can't realistically support multiple systems at the same time. We > >>>> need everyone to use the same system, otherwise we have (even more) > >>>> fragmented communication. So, we either need everyone to agree to > >>>> some new system and then have people step forward to implement it, > >>>> or we need to all agree to do our best to use the system we have > >>>> in place now. > >>> > >>> I think it may work as is (with proper mail filters), but as someone > >>> already > >>> mentioned in this thread it would be better to have someone more > >>> experienced > >>> in Openstack community projects as a core team member or PTL to catch > all > >>> these things otherwise it may happen that inexperienced PTL/team just > >>> miss > >>> something like now. > >> > >> If the team needs help, please ask for it. We should be able to find > >> someone to do a little mentoring and provide some guidance. > >> > >>> Still I don't think it's such a big issue to just fire project from > Big > >>> Tent - > >>> who will benefit from that? Again someone already mentioned what will > it > >>> mean > >>> for such team (loss of potencial developers, etc.). > >>> Moreover for teams who are actively working on project as it seems > that > >>> both > >>> OpenStackSalt and Security teams do. > >> > >> Signing up to be a part of the big tent is not free. Membership comes > >> with expectations and obligations. Failing to meet those may be an > >> indication that the team isn't ready, or that membership is not a good > >> fit. > >> > >>> And I thought that real work on a project is our primary goal.. this > >>> situation > >>> is like loosing job when I left dirty coffee cup at my workspace. > >> > >> I hope you consider team leadership and community participation to > >> be more important than your analogy implies. > >> > >> Doug > >> > >>>> Did your release liaison follow the instructions to make that happen? > >>>> http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/releases/tree/README.rst > >>> > >>> That seems to be the reason. There was new release planned with > support > >>> for > >>> containerized deployment which would follow that guide (as first > releases > >>> were > >>> done during/shortly after openstack-salt move to Big Tent). > >>> As mentioned above - more experienced PTL would be helpful here and we > >>> are > >>> currently talking with people who could fit that position. > >>> > >>>>>> I see no emails tagged with [salt] on the mailing list since March > of > >>>>>> this year, aside from this thread. Are you using a different > communication > >>>>>> channel for team coordination? You mention IRC, but how are new > contributors > >>>>>> expected to find you? > >>>>> > >>>>> Yes, we are using openstack-salt channel and openstack meetings over > >>>>> IRC. This channel is mentioned eg. in readme here [1] and community > >>>>> meetings page [2] which are on weekly basis (logs [3]). > >>>>> > >>>>> We also had a couple of people comming to team IRC talking to us > about > >>>>> project > >>>>> so I believe they can find the way to contact us even without our > heavy > >>>>> activity at openstack-dev (which should be better as I admitted). > >>>> > >>>> That works great for folks in your timezones. It's less useful for > >>>> anyone who isn't around at the same time as you, which is one reason > >>>> our community emphasizes using email communications. Email gives > >>>> you asynchronous discussions for timezone coverage, allows folks > >>>> who are traveling or off work for a period to catch up on and > >>>> participate in discussions later, etc. > >>>> > >>>>> [1] https://github.com/openstack/openstack-salt > >>>>> [2] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/openstack-salt > >>>>> [3] http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_salt/2016/ > >>>>> > >>>>>>> Of course I don't want to excuse our fault. In case it's not too > >>>>>>> late, > >>>>>>> we will try to be more active in mailing lists like openstack-dev > and > >>>>>>> not miss such important events next time. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> [1] http://stackalytics.com/?module=openstacksalt-group > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -Filip > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 12:23 PM, Thierry Carrez > >>>>>>> <thie...@openstack.org> > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Hi everyone, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> As announced previously[1][2], there were no PTL candidates > within > >>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>> election deadline for a number of official OpenStack project > teams: > >>>>>>>> Astara, UX, OpenStackSalt and Security. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> In the Astara case, the current team working on it would like to > >>>>>>>> abandon > >>>>>>>> the project (and let it be available for any new team who wishes > to > >>>>>>>> take > >>>>>>>> it away). A change should be proposed really soon now to go in > that > >>>>>>>> direction. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> In the UX case, the current PTL (Piet Kruithof) very quickly > >>>>>>>> reacted, > >>>>>>>> explained his error and asked to be considered for the position > for > >>>>>>>> Ocata. The TC will officialize his nomination at the next > meeting, > >>>>>>>> together with the newly elected PTLs. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> That leaves us with OpenStackSalt and Security, where nobody > reacted > >>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>> the announcement that we are missing PTL candidates. That points > to > >>>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>> real disconnect between those teams and the rest of the > community. > >>>>>>>> Even > >>>>>>>> if you didn't have the election schedule in mind, it was pretty > hard > >>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>> miss all the PTL nominations in the email last week. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> The majority of TC members present at the meeting yesterday > >>>>>>>> suggested > >>>>>>>> that those project teams should be removed from the Big Tent, > with > >>>>>>>> their > >>>>>>>> design summit space allocation slightly reduced to match that > (and > >>>>>>>> make > >>>>>>>> room for other not-yet-official teams). > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> In the case of OpenStackSalt, it's a relatively new addition, > and if > >>>>>>>> they get their act together they could probably be re-proposed in > >>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>> future. In the case of Security, it points to a more significant > >>>>>>>> disconnect (since it's not the first time the PTL misses the > >>>>>>>> nomination > >>>>>>>> call). We definitely still need to care about Security (and we > also > >>>>>>>> need > >>>>>>>> a home for the Vulnerability Management team), but I think the > >>>>>>>> "Security > >>>>>>>> team" acts more like a workgroup than as an official project > team, > >>>>>>>> as > >>>>>>>> evidenced by the fact that nobody in that team reacted to the > lack > >>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>> PTL nomination, or the announcement that the team missed the bus. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> The suggested way forward there would be to remove the "Security > >>>>>>>> project > >>>>>>>> team", have the Vulnerability Management Team file to be its own > >>>>>>>> official project team (in the same vein as the stable maintenance > >>>>>>>> team), > >>>>>>>> and have Security be just a workgroup rather than a project team. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Thoughts, comments ? > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> [1] > >>>>>>>> http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016- > >>>>>>>> September/103904.html > >>>>>>>> [2] > >>>>>>>> http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016- > >>>>>>>> September/103939.html > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>> Thierry Carrez (ttx) > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > __________________________________________________________________________ > >>>>>>>> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) > >>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: > >>>>>>>> openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe > >>>>>>>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > __________________________________________________________________________ > >>>>>>> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) > >>>>>>> Unsubscribe: > >>>>>>> openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe > >>>>>>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > __________________________________________________________________________ > >>>>>> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) > >>>>>> Unsubscribe: > >>>>>> openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe > >>>>>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > __________________________________________________________________________ > >>>> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) > >>>> Unsubscribe: > >>>> openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe > >>>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev > >> > >> > __________________________________________________________________________ > >> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) > >> Unsubscribe: > openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe > >> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev > > > > > > -- > > Jakub Pavlik > > CTO > > > > [tcp ◕ cloud] > > > > +420 602 177 027 > > jakub.pav...@tcpcloud.eu > > > > tcp cloud a.s. > > Thamova 16 > > 186 00 Praha 8 - Karlin > > Czech republic > > http://tcpcloud.eu > > http://opentcpcloud.org > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > > OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) > > Unsubscribe: > openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe > > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev > > > > -- > Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims > > __________________________________________________________________________ > OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) > Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev > > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) > Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev -- Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims __________________________________________________________________________ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
