Adrian Schröter wrote: > Am Monday 08 May 2006 13:08 schrieb Pascal Bleser: > ... >> Most notably, the staff dedicated to openSUSE at Novell is too small >> in numbers. This has some implications, as we cannot tell Novell what >> to do with its money (no jdd, we can't): > > I think the main problem here is that the distribution gets still compiled > with the internal autobuild. Our plan is to move out the packages step by > step to the public Build Service. I hope that we can develop 10.2 with the > public build service which should improve this situation at least in regard > of the distribution development.
Would be awesome, yet we'll have to see whether the build service will be mature enough when 10.2 will start to get built, to avoid having a issues caused by the build service. Guess I'd better kick myself and start using it to trigger some bugs ;) I'll see what osc has to offer, seems to best fit for the way I work. >> - information flow: not enough information between different parts of >> the community, also about the wiki, announcements, changes, decisions, ... >> >> Other, minor ideas, such as having @opensuse.org email addresses, to >> show we're part of the community (this has been mentioned once on the >> list, but hasn't been discussed further). > > While I agree that there should become more people an @opensuse.org email > address, I disagree that everybody should get one. Because not every user of > openSUSE should be able to speak for the project. ACK, that's also what I was having on my mind. > The question is, how we can decide/vote who should get one ? How many > people Right, that's the only real issue. > should get one ? I would be very happy, if we could elect some committee for > these questions ... > Btw, a forward address for everybody could be [EMAIL PROTECTED] for > using it esp in regard with the build service... > How does this sound ? Very good to me. +1 I didn't want to use that word until now, but I guess that electing some form of "steering committee" could be a very welcome step forward. >> I'm sick of having unanswered questions, waiting for the build service >> to solve all problems, and waiting for folks at SUSE/Novell to do >> things for us because they're busy with development, beta phases or >> the many other things they have to do (note: this is not meant to be a >> rant against the SUSE staff, they have a lot of work and not enough >> people dedicated to openSUSE). > > Sorry for this, but the build service is already there for people, who accept > bugs, problems, downtimes and so on. You can already build public packages. Yes, but Adrian, what I mean is that since openSUSE has been kicked off in October, many questions and topics have been put back because the build service was going to solve everything (and it might do so one day ;)). Other topics have also been put back because everyone was busy working on the 10.0 release, and it was pretty much the same the last month or two with 10.1 (agreed, that was a particularly hot one). The latter point being why I wrote we should get forward as a community without always waiting for you guys to take decisions, we can't just have a standstill while you're busy on a release. Now the build service is starting to take some shape, which is great, but it still lacks tooling (please, not the web UI ;)) and guidelines ([1] looks like chaos to me, and even inside subdirectories the names of distributions are varying from SL10 to SuLi10.0 to a few others) - but I've already addressed that in another mail (and just noticed your reply, thanks ;)). [1] http://repos.opensuse.org/opensuse/repositories/main/ I don't use it as of now, because I have my environment, my scripts, my repository, I need minimal effort to submit, build and retrieve packages, mostly because I manage an insane amount of packages during my free time and it has to be working as quickly as possible. While we're at it, as it comes to my mind right now, an example of lack of "community embracement" as far as packaging is concerned: SUSE Linux 10.1 now has signed installation sources, supports an enhanced RPM-MD (aka yum) format with YOU-alike information. That's great, I love it, I really do but... it hasn't been advertised on any relevant list (I'm on opensuse, opensuse-build, opensuse-packaging and opensuse-factory, I guess I would have noticed ;D), there is no documentation available, no howto. Well, for the signed repos, some information has been put together (don't have the URL at hands atm). The enhanced RPM-MD thing kind of popped up by chance as Christoph mentioned it while discussing something loosely related. When such things are discussed and developed, I would expect it to be public, e.g. on opensuse-packaging. While it isn't really of much interest for users, it is for 3rd party packagers like the packman team, myself, and many others. 10.1 is going to be released in 2 days and I have no idea how to sign my repositories to avoid big warnings showing up in end users' YaST2 when they add my repo. I guess I'd be able to do so by spending half a day with trial+error, but I don't quite have that time atm, and I was actually expecting something more or less spoon-fed to be written for us. Don't take me wrong, it's not supposed to be a useless rant for the fun of it, I'd just like to point out some things that seem problematic to me ;) >> We have to get our act together, drive topics and initiatives on this >> very list ourselves, then come up with agreed upon, realistic >> proposals or requests to Novell, if needed. >> Of course, it's even better when we don't have to. >> And let's please discuss important issues first. >> >> This is a benevolent dictatorship model, but that doesn't mean that we >> should just sit back, rant and wait for things to be done by them. >> >> At least that's my vision on how we should evolve as a community, and >> I've been using SUSE since 5.0 (= quite some time), waiting for these >> opportunities to happen. Maybe I'm just too impatient, I probably am, >> but I objectively think we're pretty much stuck in inertia right now. > > Impatientness is a good motivation :) Definitely ;) Personally, atm, my mindset is "I want everything and I want it now". Of course not meant for real, but as a perspective to try to find out what to do and what we're missing. Let's raise issues and ideas, discuss them, make decisions and/or proposals to you folks (when necessary) and see when, how and if we can get those things done. Of course, doing them will take time, but at least we'd have a big TODO list. cheers -- -o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/ /\\ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> _\_v FOSDEM 2006 -- 25+26 February 2006 in Brussels
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