Can I just chip in here and ask children (all people) to cool the f'k down?
Some points that people seem to be forgetting: - Xwork is in the SANDBOX and is eXperimental (if you like the X for that) - Nothing in Xwork can't be changed, these are ideas, prototypes - Xwork will be better for 'web work' than WebWork is! - Xwork will be better for 'non web work' than WebWork is, _WITHOUT_ impacting people who don't care for 'non web work' Oh, and another thing - all this crap about Swing is a totally different issue: Will Xwork work without the web? Yes - it's just a generic command pattern framework. Guess what? So is WebWork! Does that mean we'll start building Swing apps with request / response etc? No - that would be stupid. However the encapsulation of business logic into a 'command' and executing it in a context IS a useful thing for non web applications, and even the non web backend part of web applications! Now here is a list of requests / commands (pun intended) from me: - quit arguing, it does us no good - talk of forking is fine, but explain your reasons - "I don't like it Mum, it's all too scary and new" is not a valid reason, that's whinging - try to work with people, not against them - ie if someone does something you don't like, find a common ground, or take their improvement and modify it so it works for your case! Does it REALLY matter to you? C'mon guys - it's PAINFUL to watch a group of smart people having such dumb arguments - and self destructing in the process. I suggest the Xwork folks get themselves a new mailing list and discussions happen there. When they are ready, they can make some sort of release for public comment. Until then all this arguing is really just useless (and might I say that most of it is coming from people who _do_ very little, but _talk_ a lot - which doesn't hold a lot of sway in my view). Please read this http://incubator.apache.org/rules-for-revolutionaries.html as it explains well the exact problem we're having (people want to make some radical changes, and others react negatively - largely out because of a fear of the unknown / change). Apologies in advance for any angry frustration contained in this mail, but as I said I really think that this is a storm in a teacup. People are leaving, forking projects and having hysterics - and Xwork is only a few classes in CVS! -mike On 13/1/03 2:18 AM, "matt baldree" ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) penned the words: > I think there are two directions here and I don't see any easy resolution at > this stage. So, yes I think two projects make sense. My next question is "Is > there room for these two projects at OS?" Does it make sense or will it be a > distraction since they do have overlap? Should WW move back out on its own? > > -Matt > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rickard �berg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 7:24 AM > Subject: Re: [OS-webwork] Reflection > > > Erik Beeson wrote: >> Rickard, as I understood, XWork was to break away from J2EE, hence >> removing "web" from the name. If new versions with strong web ties are >> going to remain, shouldn't they remain under the original WebWork name? > > That is something I wanted to gauge by my last couple of emails. I > personally do not believe (at this point) that making the web part > "optional" is going to work very well. I certainly don't believe that it > is going to be feasible, or even a good idea, to make a framework that > allows code to be written for both Swing and the web. They're different > beasts with different requirements, with completely different thinking > behind how code gets written. We have a lot of Swing code in our > project, and when I look at it I simply don't see how something like > XWork would fit in, or why it would be useful. > > What *is* useful is to allow actions to be called without a servlet > environment, but more or less *only* for testing/debugging purposes. > Executing actions as a response to asynchronous messages could work too. > But that's about it. I do not believe that actions (except for maybe 1% > of special cases) can be reused in so different spaces. I remain open to > the *possibility* of it, but so far I just haven't seen it. > > So, given all of this, my resignation from XWork still holds. The > requirements that have been voiced the last few days are not mine, and I > don't think they're compatible with my goals, at least not without > serious compromises that will only hurt the end result. The question > then becomes: would it be useful to do *both* XWork and WebWork, but as > separate projects with these different goals? > > /Rickard > > -- > Rickard �berg > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Senselogic > > Got blog? I do. http://dreambean.com > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.NET email is sponsored by: > SourceForge Enterprise Edition + IBM + LinuxWorld =omething 2 See! > http://www.vasoftware.com > _______________________________________________ > Opensymphony-webwork mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.NET email is sponsored by: > SourceForge Enterprise Edition + IBM + LinuxWorld = Something 2 See! > http://www.vasoftware.com > _______________________________________________ > Opensymphony-webwork mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.NET email is sponsored by: SourceForge Enterprise Edition + IBM + LinuxWorld = Something 2 See! http://www.vasoftware.com _______________________________________________ Opensymphony-webwork mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork
