Oh I agree with what you are saying there - and that is EXACTLY why we don't
deal with any tools that actually touch user data (unless you count
reorganizing tables/tablespaces etc..). And I'm not sure which tool you are
actually talking about, there are good and bad in the market place..
I personally have a wealth of GUI tools available to me - SQL
Tuning/monitoring/management etc. and STILL revert to command line - as I
simply want to learn more.. BUT I would have to say that a GUI tool will
make a DBA more productive in their day to day work! There are few people I
know that can throw together a script that monitors X, then evaluate the
data that comes out of the a$$ end of it, in the time it takes to point and
click a button, and watch the lovely pretty graph that that GUI piece of
"junk" throws out for you..
I have never been a DBA (although that is probably where my heart is), but I
do know that you guys are on extremely tight schedules, with a LOT to fit in
to a day, and if you can have a lovely GUI tool that sits in background for
you monitoring your database, and alert you when there IS a problem, leaving
you to move on to more interesting stuff like tuning your database
parameters (in command line if you wish), eating your doughnuts, drinking
coffee, and slapping developers - what's the problem with them?
Mark
Disclaimer: This is in no way the view of my employer, just my own (probably
stupid) opinion.
-----Original Message-----
Dayal
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 11:02
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>>You know it make me laugh how a whole lot of people out there moan
about
>>point and click technology - YET the business that I am in - third
party GUI
>>tools for databases - is BOOMING! So what is it? DBA's don't like a
point &
>>click O/S - but one to help them with their job, is OK...
>>Just my 50p :)
But then I remember someone complaining of GUI'ed tool not doing right
Migration Job (after waiting for more than a day) for him right????
And that's the reason, the more you become familiar with Depths of
Databases more you start hating those so called "Easy to Use GUI
Tools"...
My 50p ;-))
Rajesh
OC DBA 8&8i
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 1:32 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
"I dont like to sit on my ass as others pass 3rd rate
information about a 3rd rate os on to others..."
"The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to
lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores
the
fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them
into
it in the first place."
Now I'm confused John - Is it a 2nd or 3rd rate O/S? :)
By the way - that was the biggest damn paragraph I have seen in my life
-
you can't have written that on a Windoze box - it would have corrected
it
for you ! :)
NOW - what about all those start-up companies that don't have oodles of
venture capital? Should they go out and purchase a Sun server at vast
expense compared to a few well set up Win2K boxes - and leave themselves
in
the shit with their bank balance? I Don't think so.. Can they still run
their business proactively, and continue to grow and make money? Sure
they
can.. Just because they don't have a UNIX box sitting in the middle of
their
small enterprise world - does not mean that their business is going to
fail?
If you ask me - old Bill has done the small business world a favour!! He
has
allowed the small business to run corporate applications and databases
on a
more affordable platform. Maybe it isn't as stable - and you may get
some
down time - but I'm sure a small business is NOT going to be loosing
?20,000
an hour because of system downtime.
What a lot of you guys on here have to remember is that not every
company
has money printed for them, people have to START somewhere. The bottom
line
has already been stated - you CAN make an NT/2000 box stable enough to
run
*most* of the time - you just have to know how to wine, dine, and treat
it
well. If this is what you want to achieve, don't go installing new crap
on
your database server every week. LEAVE THE THING ALONE - and let it do
it's
job.
You know it make me laugh how a whole lot of people out there moan about
point and click technology - YET the business that I am in - third party
GUI
tools for databases - is BOOMING! So what is it? DBA's don't like a
point &
click O/S - but one to help them with their job, is OK...
Just my 50p :)
Mark
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 02:10
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Apparently you dont have any respect for the late Douglas Adams. Tisk
Tisk! I'm certianly not saying that NT isnt good for what it was
designed
to do... workstation/end user platforms. Its a nice way for everyone to
not have to think and enjoy pointing and clicking all day. Does windows
have the scalability/reliability needed in for a datawarehouse or heavy
transaction processing environment? Nope, but then again you probably
wouldnt know that cause its out side of the scope of windows :) I'm not
here to debate who is smarter than who, I just hate the environment that
windows breeds. I'm not a person person. I like to work with computers,
and when I have some twit crawling up my ass cause he thinks he knows
the
ins and outs of networking / data managment / io / resource management
cause he pointed and clicked his way into some certificate, it just
pisses
me off. If all you want to do is set up an exchange server at home fine,
but dont assume that you know EVERYTHING about smtp/mail servers/mua and
the universe because you pointed and clicked till your fingers were worn
down to the nubs setting up your backoffice suite of products 90% of
which
you will never use and 95% of the products that you actually do use, you
wont understand. Windows is a breeding ground for morons. IF (I
emphasize
IF) a knowledgeable individual sets up a windows machine, it can and
often
does what it says it can do. Windows doesnt breed and environment that
you
HAVE to learn what you're doing. Microsoft says that it wants everything
to be easy to set up and working together which when it happens its a
good
thing (although it happens few and far between). The problem is that
through years of never having to learn a thing you end up not knowing
anything. On a unix machine you HAVE to know what you're doing, what
you
need to set up and what its specific job is. I have to learn how the
parts
of the system work together, how the different systems interact, and how
everything fits into the whole. Because I know what everything is doing,
and how it behaves I can walk up to a windows machine and fix the
problem.
Windows is easy to use, easy to set up, and IS useful for the day to day
things of the average end user. When I walk into a data center at sun,
or
TI, or nokia, or ericson, or eds, or any fab plant I see rows and rows
of
sun / hp boxes doing a whole range of high availability services. When I
walk into broadwing or aperian or some other co-loc place that hosts a
bunch of .com's and see rows of way over priced/powered dell servers
hosting the 50 hits a day that averagestartup.com is getting then I
think
"fine... what has the world lost if that machine goes down? Do you think
that this place really was bright enough to hire a knowledgeable person
to
make the decisions in the first place. I mean come on they're whole
company plan is based around <insert crappy idea here>." Its not a
coincidence that there are rows of 6500/5500's and e10k's doing the
important work and slews of relatively cheap windows machines doing the
grunt labor that isnt what fuels the business... and its not cause sun
has
a great marketing/sales department either (most of those guys dont know
their head from their ass). The world is full of generalizations so
here's
mine: Windows is good for what it does. The average person doesnt have
to
learn much/anything to use it. It sucks at what it doesnt do, and it
doesnt do high availability. As for the quote, its not mine, I just
found
it amusing. I dont constantly complain about windows because I dont use
it, but then again, I dont like to sit on my ass as others pass 3rd rate
information about a 3rd rate os on to others... all that breeds is some
more 3rd rate people ;) All I'm doing is protecting my sanity/nerves by
having a few less morons out there, but as I can see its already too
late
for some :)
Thanks,
jon
"The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to
lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores
the
fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them
into
it in the first place."
-- Douglas Adams
"If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show
you
how it's done."
-- Scott Adams
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