Mark,
My only problem with GUI tools (and as an aside it was I believe Oracle's
Migration GUI that failed for that member of the list) is that newbies use
the tools and don't learn the underlying structure and data beneath them
I think GUI tools are a great boon. If nothing else, it gives damagement a
pretty screen to look at while I am working on something else :)
Truly though, having a red light flash on a console to warn me of a lock is
a good thing. In fact, the one incident I am thinking of, we were able to
find the lock, clear it and have things back to normal as the phones
starting ringing -- users calling to say "Oracle is down". We were able to
tell them to wait a minute or two and try again, it was fixed.
Rachel
>From: "Mark Leith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: OT RE: 24 x 7 on NT?
>Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 02:55:28 -0800
>
>Oh I agree with what you are saying there - and that is EXACTLY why we
>don't
>deal with any tools that actually touch user data (unless you count
>reorganizing tables/tablespaces etc..). And I'm not sure which tool you are
>actually talking about, there are good and bad in the market place..
>
>I personally have a wealth of GUI tools available to me - SQL
>Tuning/monitoring/management etc. and STILL revert to command line - as I
>simply want to learn more.. BUT I would have to say that a GUI tool will
>make a DBA more productive in their day to day work! There are few people I
>know that can throw together a script that monitors X, then evaluate the
>data that comes out of the a$$ end of it, in the time it takes to point and
>click a button, and watch the lovely pretty graph that that GUI piece of
>"junk" throws out for you..
>
>I have never been a DBA (although that is probably where my heart is), but
>I
>do know that you guys are on extremely tight schedules, with a LOT to fit
>in
>to a day, and if you can have a lovely GUI tool that sits in background for
>you monitoring your database, and alert you when there IS a problem,
>leaving
>you to move on to more interesting stuff like tuning your database
>parameters (in command line if you wish), eating your doughnuts, drinking
>coffee, and slapping developers - what's the problem with them?
>
>Mark
>
>Disclaimer: This is in no way the view of my employer, just my own
>(probably
>stupid) opinion.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>Dayal
>Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 11:02
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> >>You know it make me laugh how a whole lot of people out there moan
>about
> >>point and click technology - YET the business that I am in - third
>party GUI
> >>tools for databases - is BOOMING! So what is it? DBA's don't like a
>point &
> >>click O/S - but one to help them with their job, is OK...
>
> >>Just my 50p :)
>
>But then I remember someone complaining of GUI'ed tool not doing right
>Migration Job (after waiting for more than a day) for him right????
>
>And that's the reason, the more you become familiar with Depths of
>Databases more you start hating those so called "Easy to Use GUI
>Tools"...
>
>My 50p ;-))
>
>Rajesh
>OC DBA 8&8i
>-----Original Message-----
>Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 1:32 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>"I dont like to sit on my ass as others pass 3rd rate
>information about a 3rd rate os on to others..."
>
>"The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to
>lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores
>the
>fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them
>into
>it in the first place."
>
>Now I'm confused John - Is it a 2nd or 3rd rate O/S? :)
>
>By the way - that was the biggest damn paragraph I have seen in my life
>-
>you can't have written that on a Windoze box - it would have corrected
>it
>for you ! :)
>
>NOW - what about all those start-up companies that don't have oodles of
>venture capital? Should they go out and purchase a Sun server at vast
>expense compared to a few well set up Win2K boxes - and leave themselves
>in
>the shit with their bank balance? I Don't think so.. Can they still run
>their business proactively, and continue to grow and make money? Sure
>they
>can.. Just because they don't have a UNIX box sitting in the middle of
>their
>small enterprise world - does not mean that their business is going to
>fail?
>If you ask me - old Bill has done the small business world a favour!! He
>has
>allowed the small business to run corporate applications and databases
>on a
>more affordable platform. Maybe it isn't as stable - and you may get
>some
>down time - but I'm sure a small business is NOT going to be loosing
>?20,000
>an hour because of system downtime.
>
>What a lot of you guys on here have to remember is that not every
>company
>has money printed for them, people have to START somewhere. The bottom
>line
>has already been stated - you CAN make an NT/2000 box stable enough to
>run
>*most* of the time - you just have to know how to wine, dine, and treat
>it
>well. If this is what you want to achieve, don't go installing new crap
>on
>your database server every week. LEAVE THE THING ALONE - and let it do
>it's
>job.
>
>You know it make me laugh how a whole lot of people out there moan about
>point and click technology - YET the business that I am in - third party
>GUI
>tools for databases - is BOOMING! So what is it? DBA's don't like a
>point &
>click O/S - but one to help them with their job, is OK...
>
>Just my 50p :)
>
>Mark
>
>-----Original Message-----
>Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 02:10
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>Apparently you dont have any respect for the late Douglas Adams. Tisk
>Tisk! I'm certianly not saying that NT isnt good for what it was
>designed
>to do... workstation/end user platforms. Its a nice way for everyone to
>not have to think and enjoy pointing and clicking all day. Does windows
>have the scalability/reliability needed in for a datawarehouse or heavy
>transaction processing environment? Nope, but then again you probably
>wouldnt know that cause its out side of the scope of windows :) I'm not
>here to debate who is smarter than who, I just hate the environment that
>windows breeds. I'm not a person person. I like to work with computers,
>and when I have some twit crawling up my ass cause he thinks he knows
>the
>ins and outs of networking / data managment / io / resource management
>cause he pointed and clicked his way into some certificate, it just
>pisses
>me off. If all you want to do is set up an exchange server at home fine,
>but dont assume that you know EVERYTHING about smtp/mail servers/mua and
>the universe because you pointed and clicked till your fingers were worn
>down to the nubs setting up your backoffice suite of products 90% of
>which
>you will never use and 95% of the products that you actually do use, you
>wont understand. Windows is a breeding ground for morons. IF (I
>emphasize
>IF) a knowledgeable individual sets up a windows machine, it can and
>often
>does what it says it can do. Windows doesnt breed and environment that
>you
>HAVE to learn what you're doing. Microsoft says that it wants everything
>to be easy to set up and working together which when it happens its a
>good
>thing (although it happens few and far between). The problem is that
>through years of never having to learn a thing you end up not knowing
>anything. On a unix machine you HAVE to know what you're doing, what
>you
>need to set up and what its specific job is. I have to learn how the
>parts
>of the system work together, how the different systems interact, and how
>everything fits into the whole. Because I know what everything is doing,
>and how it behaves I can walk up to a windows machine and fix the
>problem.
>Windows is easy to use, easy to set up, and IS useful for the day to day
>things of the average end user. When I walk into a data center at sun,
>or
>TI, or nokia, or ericson, or eds, or any fab plant I see rows and rows
>of
>sun / hp boxes doing a whole range of high availability services. When I
>walk into broadwing or aperian or some other co-loc place that hosts a
>bunch of .com's and see rows of way over priced/powered dell servers
>hosting the 50 hits a day that averagestartup.com is getting then I
>think
>"fine... what has the world lost if that machine goes down? Do you think
>that this place really was bright enough to hire a knowledgeable person
>to
>make the decisions in the first place. I mean come on they're whole
>company plan is based around <insert crappy idea here>." Its not a
>coincidence that there are rows of 6500/5500's and e10k's doing the
>important work and slews of relatively cheap windows machines doing the
>grunt labor that isnt what fuels the business... and its not cause sun
>has
>a great marketing/sales department either (most of those guys dont know
>their head from their ass). The world is full of generalizations so
>here's
>mine: Windows is good for what it does. The average person doesnt have
>to
>learn much/anything to use it. It sucks at what it doesnt do, and it
>doesnt do high availability. As for the quote, its not mine, I just
>found
>it amusing. I dont constantly complain about windows because I dont use
>it, but then again, I dont like to sit on my ass as others pass 3rd rate
>information about a 3rd rate os on to others... all that breeds is some
>more 3rd rate people ;) All I'm doing is protecting my sanity/nerves by
>having a few less morons out there, but as I can see its already too
>late
>for some :)
>
>Thanks,
>jon
>
>
>"The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armor to
>lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores
>the
>fact that it was he who, by peddling second- rate technology, led them
>into
>it in the first place."
>
>-- Douglas Adams
>
>"If you have trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show
>you
>how it's done."
>
>-- Scott Adams
>
>---trim---
>
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>Author: Rajesh Dayal
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