I've tested OCP... and it's not that it is totally valueless (if nothing else it can show that someone is willing to learn) but that WHAT OCP teaches you does not tend to apply in the real world.
I won't reject a resume out-of-hand if they have OCP on it, but they'd better have something else that tells me that they have the ability to think beyond what they've been taught. OCP teaches you to parrot back Oracle's preferred method of doing things (btw, only having GUI experience on your resume does the same). I want someone who can think for themselves as well --- Edward Lock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > As someone with 7 years in the HR (Compensation) field, and now in > the IT/ERP field working on my Oracle DBA OCP, I can speak with some > knowledge and experience. > > Using the term "Entry Level" on a resume is self-defeating. Most > technical resumes are still screened by by the HR departments first, > before the hiring managers even see them. A good recruiter will be > able to identify whether you have the experience or not. If not, > they will defer a judgment call to the hiring IT manager anyway. > That doesn't mean that you should lie on your resume or deceive > anyone. But don't shoot yourself in the foot before you even get > your foot in the door. > > Annual salaries for DBAs are, indeed, coming down. If you can get > ahold of a good IT salary survey, make note of not only the average > salary, but the median salary. The median salary is what is commonly > used to benchmark a position--not the average salary. If a formal > salary structure exists at a company, they will normally use the > median as the compa-ratio for the particular paygrade or step. Use > common sense, do your homework, and ask what you're worth; but always > leave room for compromise. > > MS Access IS a relational database. However it is a file-server > application, not a client-server database, and was not designed to > handle large transactional systems over a large network. It is > designed for small to medium sized, non mission-critical business > environments. Properly designed, MS Access can serve many purposes, > but you will never find Payroll or Financial systems using MS Access > as a db platform or front-end. MS Access is a great environment for > learning databases and SQL, but it is only a starting point. > > Concerning Oracle training--use everything that you can afford. If > it's a career-change, then consider formal Oracle University > instructor-led training classes. If you're already in the field, > then self-study may work. It takes tremendous self-discipline to go > the self-study route with books and CDS or online training. > > People who say that the OCP is valueless to the market have never > tested. I say to them--why not test? > > Edward Lock > Sr. Programmer Analyst > PeopleSoft Project Office, University of Houston System > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ----- Original Message ----- > Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 12:08 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > Good afternoon all: > > I have been holding back on replying to this email because I > really > wanted to see what some of the other answers were, especially ones > related > to OCP. Rachel C. will understand as my answers will be very direct. > > 1. What is the average salary range for an entry-level DBA position? > Or > a position for someone who is just starting out as a DBA? > >>> As a person that has worked as an Oracle DBA for over 13 > years, the entry-level salary had changed quite dramatically. From > the > mid-to late 1990s when starting DBAs could make upwards of 100K to > "REALITY" > when entry-level DBAs should be making no more than 70K. Some may > disagree, > however, I don't think paying high salaries is warranted just because > the > person is a DBA. If they don't have the experience, they don't > deserve the > high monetary return. I would say that 50K is probably on the high > end for > entry-level DBAs. The days of high salaries, similarly the high > consulting > rates, are gone and organizations are now back to reality. I > actually had > someone whom has been out of work for over 6 months refuse a salary > of 65K > as a DBA because he felt it was demeaning for him to accept it. > > 2. In a job resume, should I request an entry-level position or would > that set me up for no phone calls? > >>> I disagree with everyone else regarding not using > "entry-level" on your resume. If you have no experience and you are > looking > to work in a team environment, then using this wording is acceptable. > You > will have to pick the job postings carefully so you don't send > resumes to > organizations that require lots of experience. If you can control > that, > then remove "entry-level" and use "junior" instead. > > 3. What are some steps I should take to becoming a DBA w/ the > background that I have (ie. generated databases w/ MS Access)? > >>> Well, MS Access, although people consider this a relational > database, is not. It is a file system that looks like a relational > database. Generating databases in MS Access is nothing like creating > database environments in Oracle. You will honestly need to start > from > scratch. The data modeling and application database creating may be > similar > if you followed the normalization rules and generally accepted > guidelines. > I would highly recommend using either Oracle's online learning > network, > locating a college/university where they teach Oracle. These do > exist as I > have taught several of these classes in Michigan. I would highly > recommend > contacting the Los Angeles Oracle User's Group for the location of > courses > that are taught. > If you are a devoted person when it comes to online training, then > Oracle online learning is a good start. There are other > organizations that > offer Oracle online training, however, I don't remember their names. > Understand that online training only provides you the bare basics. > It is > not going to give you the exposure and experience needed to be a true > DBA. > a) Recommended training/education in Los Angeles area? > b) Where do you recommend I study & is online training valuable? > > 4. If I could learn Oracle software on my own through Independent > study > (books & reference sites), could this be sufficient enough to go > about to > get a job? > >>> OK. This is where I disagree with everyone. The OCP is > valueless > to the market. It looks good on the resume because almost no > organization > really understands how it is obtained. As one of the authors for the > first > independent Oracle certification, we designed the certification exam > so that > inexperienced Oracle DBAs COULD NOT pass it. It required > Experience!!! The > Oracle OCP only requires you to take some training, read some books, > and > then take the exam. We as experienced DBAs has proven this time > after time > by giving the exam to people that have never been DBAs in their > careers and > have only read some basic Oracle Concepts material. There are a lot > of OCP > DBAs that still don't understand how to get stuff out of Oracle's > Data > Dictionary or, for that matter, what is a data dictionary. I see no > value > in the OCP except as a training mechanism. When high school students > can > pass the exam without any experience in Oracle, that should tell you > the > value of the exam itself. > > If you can learn portions of the Oracle software on your own, Great! > It will be impossible to learn all of Oracle on your own as the > software is > vast in features and requires different configurations that you may > not have > available to you. In teams of acquiring a job from learning the > software, > you may be able to get a job working in a team of Oracle DBAs. > However, I > will be the first one here to say that I would not hire you as a > stand alone > DBA with just that type of experience. For small shops, maybe, but > for > enterprises, no way. > > a) Is the OCP certification necessary? > b) If I took this independent study route instead of formal training > from like a vocational school, would the steps to getting a job (or > even my > OCP certification) be the same? Or would it be more difficult > without > formal training? > Independent study mechanisms are typically not structured in > learning capabilities. You need a structured model to properly learn > the > ridiculous things in Oracle, especially with Oracle9i. I would start > with > some basic online training and then move to a semi-formal study > program. > From there, either vocational, self-study or a more formal class > would be > beneficial. > 5. What are some valuable books and resources to aid in my training? > >>> Rachel's DBA 101 book would be an excellent choice. Some of the > books by O'Riely and Oracle Press would also help you. Many people > have > given excellent suggestions here. There are so many titles that I > would not > beg to know them offhand. > > > 6. How much does Oracle9i cost & would it be worth it to get since i > want to learn? Are there evaluation copies out there that I can get > my > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). 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