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No, Access *IS* a
relational database!
I almost want to add ;P
to the end of that, but it's true! It's just a "compact" relational database,
that resides in one file. It is still SQL based, and geared around objects such
as tables, indexes etc.
A poor man's RDBMS.. That
does the trick quite nicely for the niche that it's in..
Happy New Year everyone!!
Trying to get back in to the swing of things now eh!!
May you all have a
prosperous one!
Cheers
Mark
Did you mean... "MS SQL
Server is a relational database" and not MS Access?
Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle DBA)
Acting Head, System Admin & Operations
Bedford Institute of Oceanography
Fisheries and Oceans Canada
As someone with 7 years in the HR (Compensation) field, and
now in the IT/ERP field working on my Oracle DBA OCP, I can speak with some
knowledge and experience.
Using the term "Entry Level" on a resume is self-defeating. Most
technical resumes are still screened by by the HR departments first, before
the hiring managers even see them. A good recruiter will be able to
identify whether you have the experience or not. If not, they will
defer a judgment call to the hiring IT manager anyway. That doesn't
mean that you should lie on your resume or deceive anyone. But don't
shoot yourself in the foot before you even get your foot in the
door.
Annual salaries for DBAs are, indeed, coming down. If you
can get ahold of a good IT salary survey, make note of not only the
average salary, but the median salary. The median salary is what is
commonly used to benchmark a position--not the average salary.
If a formal salary structure exists at a company, they will normally use the
median as the compa-ratio for the particular paygrade or step. Use
common sense, do your homework, and ask what you're worth; but always
leave room for compromise.
MS Access IS a relational database. However it is a file-server
application, not a client-server database, and was not designed to
handle large transactional systems over a large network. It is
designed for small to medium sized, non mission-critical business
environments. Properly designed, MS Access can serve many purposes,
but you will never find Payroll or Financial systems using MS Access as a db
platform or front-end. MS Access is a great environment for learning
databases and SQL, but it is only a starting point.
Concerning Oracle training--use everything that you can afford.
If it's a career-change, then consider formal Oracle University
instructor-led training classes. If you're already in the field, then
self-study may work. It takes tremendous self-discipline to go the
self-study route with books and CDS or online training.
People who say that the OCP is valueless to the market have never
tested. I say to them--why not test?
Edward Lock
Sr. Programmer Analyst
PeopleSoft Project Office, University of Houston System
----- Original Message -----
From:
Karniotis, Stephen
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 12:08
PM
To: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: Becoming a DBA
questions
Good afternoon all:
I have been
holding back on replying to this email because I really
wanted to see
what some of the other answers were, especially ones related
to
OCP. Rachel C. will understand as my answers will be very
direct.
1. What is the average salary range for an entry-level DBA
position? Or
a position for someone who is just starting out as a
DBA?
>>> As a person that has worked as an Oracle DBA for over
13
years, the entry-level salary had changed quite dramatically.
From the
mid-to late 1990s when starting DBAs could make upwards of
100K to "REALITY"
when entry-level DBAs should be making no more than
70K. Some may disagree,
however, I don't think paying high
salaries is warranted just because the
person is a DBA. If they
don't have the experience, they don't deserve the
high monetary
return. I would say that 50K is probably on the high end
for
entry-level DBAs. The days of high salaries, similarly the
high consulting
rates, are gone and organizations are now back to
reality. I actually had
someone whom has been out of work for
over 6 months refuse a salary of 65K
as a DBA because he felt it was
demeaning for him to accept it.
2. In a job resume, should I
request an entry-level position or would
that set me up for no phone
calls?
>>> I disagree with everyone else regarding not
using
"entry-level" on your resume. If you have no experience and
you are looking
to work in a team environment, then using this wording
is acceptable. You
will have to pick the job postings carefully
so you don't send resumes to
organizations that require lots of
experience. If you can control that,
then remove "entry-level"
and use "junior" instead.
3. What are some steps I should take to
becoming a DBA w/ the
background that I have (ie. generated databases
w/ MS Access)?
>>> Well, MS Access, although people consider
this a relational
database, is not. It is a file system that
looks like a relational
database. Generating databases in MS
Access is nothing like creating
database environments in Oracle.
You will honestly need to start from
scratch. The data modeling
and application database creating may be similar
if you followed the
normalization rules and generally accepted guidelines.
I would highly
recommend using either Oracle's online learning network,
locating a
college/university where they teach Oracle. These do exist as
I
have taught several of these classes in Michigan. I would
highly recommend
contacting the Los Angeles Oracle User's Group for the
location of courses
that are taught.
If you are a devoted person
when it comes to online training, then
Oracle online learning is a good
start. There are other organizations that
offer Oracle online
training, however, I don't remember their names.
Understand that online
training only provides you the bare basics. It is
not going to
give you the exposure and experience needed to be a true DBA.
a)
Recommended training/education in Los Angeles area?
b) Where do you
recommend I study & is online training valuable?
4. If I could
learn Oracle software on my own through Independent study
(books &
reference sites), could this be sufficient enough to go about to
get a
job?
>>> OK. This is where I disagree with
everyone. The OCP is valueless
to the market. It looks good
on the resume because almost no organization
really understands how it
is obtained. As one of the authors for the first
independent
Oracle certification, we designed the certification exam so
that
inexperienced Oracle DBAs COULD NOT pass it. It required
Experience!!! The
Oracle OCP only requires you to take some
training, read some books, and
then take the exam. We as
experienced DBAs has proven this time after time
by giving the exam to
people that have never been DBAs in their careers and
have only read
some basic Oracle Concepts material. There are a lot of OCP
DBAs
that still don't understand how to get stuff out of Oracle's
Data
Dictionary or, for that matter, what is a data dictionary. I
see no value
in the OCP except as a training mechanism. When high
school students can
pass the exam without any experience in Oracle,
that should tell you the
value of the exam itself.
If you can
learn portions of the Oracle software on your own, Great!
It will be
impossible to learn all of Oracle on your own as the software is
vast
in features and requires different configurations that you may not
have
available to you. In teams of acquiring a job from learning
the software,
you may be able to get a job working in a team of Oracle
DBAs. However, I
will be the first one here to say that I would
not hire you as a stand alone
DBA with just that type of
experience. For small shops, maybe, but for
enterprises, no
way.
a) Is the OCP certification necessary?
b) If I took this
independent study route instead of formal training
from like a
vocational school, would the steps to getting a job (or even my
OCP
certification) be the same? Or would it be more difficult
without
formal training?
Independent study mechanisms are typically
not structured in
learning capabilities. You need a structured
model to properly learn the
ridiculous things in Oracle, especially
with Oracle9i. I would start with
some basic online training and
then move to a semi-formal study program.
From there, either
vocational, self-study or a more formal class would
be
beneficial.
5. What are some valuable books and resources to aid
in my training?
>>> Rachel's DBA 101 book would be an
excellent choice. Some of the
books by O'Riely and Oracle Press
would also help you. Many people have
given excellent suggestions
here. There are so many titles that I would not
beg to know them
offhand.
6. How much does Oracle9i cost & would it be worth
it to get since i
want to learn? Are there evaluation copies out
there that I can get my
hands on?
>>> You can download
Oracle9i from www.oracle.com. In terms of cost, it
varies
depending on the number of CPUs and hardware chosen. You can
also
pay for an Oracle Technology Network membership and receive the
CDs from
Oracle. Understand that Oracle is not a small software
product. The
requirements on your hardware are quite large, so
make sure you have enough
bandwidth in terms of CPU and memory before
investing in it.
7. What are the basic introductory
courses/resources/training I could
do to learn or get started in DBA
training?
8. Basically, please list the steps you took to become a DBA
(starting
with education/training to job entry) and how you sould
suggest I should go
about starting to learn the fundamentals and then
more in depth?
7 & 8 are too generic. I would advise
contacting your own DBA staff and
asking them this question. I
always recommend becoming an Oracle developer
before becoming a DBA.
DBAs that have never developed Oracle-based software
will never
understand the issues related to query optimization,
performance
management, etc. as well as if they had attempted to create
an
Oracle-centric application. In many cases, I have seen Oracle
DBAs with no
development experience really screw up an application
environment.
Hope this helps.
Thank You
Stephen
P. Karniotis
Technical Alliance Manager
Compuware
Corporation
Direct: (248) 865-4350
Mobile: (248) 408-2918
Email:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web:
www.compuware.com
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday,
December 31, 2001 11:15 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-L
Subject: Re: Becoming a DBA questions
1. Depends on the
company/part of the country and the economy.
2. State your experience
with other databases. Once you get Oracle up
and running at home, add
that so they know you have installed it (IMHO
installing on Linux is
more impressive as it is very close to unix, but
doing it under windows
is better than nothing.) Don't say "looking for
entry-level Oracle dba
job" in your mission statement. Say something
like "looking for
the opportunity to move my proven database design and
administration
skills to a new level with Oracle" or something to that
extent.
3.
If you are good at self-study, Oracle has online learning that
appears
pretty reasonable ($99/month or something like that). But
get
yourself an Oracle installation to practice on first.
4. Quite
possible to get a job with self-study and training. Passing
your
OCP tests will help you get that first job. After that it is
nice
to put on your biography when you submit papers to present at
the
conferences and user groups.
6. I'm not in the office today, but
I'm sure someone will correct me on
the title, but the two books I
think are great are
a. Oracle 8i dba from Oracle Press. I think that is
the one that has a
great example of real-life paper to database that
explains things very
well.
b. DBA 101 by Rachel Carmichael (and
others). I haven't had the chance
to read it yet, but I've got a friend
who is an aspiring dba so I've
looked at it and he really loves
it. And since I'm a big fan of
Rachel's work, I have to recommend
it.
8. Well, I have been working with databases for many years. But
my
first Oracle job was an accident. I was hired for other skills
that I
had and the day I started my new manager said "the Oracle DBA
is
leaving. You've got a lot of database experience on your resume.
Want to
be our Oracle DBA?" The rest is history. My advice
to you is to get
Oracle installed and decide on a project that you can
use and maintain.
I built a contact manager using an Access
front-end. I kept learning
new ways to improve the design and
adding new features. Besides coming
in very handy for job
searches, it gave me something to discuss when
networking and someone
would hear that I worked with databases and ask
what I had worked on
recently. I would also recommend looking up a
local user group
(start at www.ioug.org and click on the User Group
link). Attend and
make friends. These will be your peers and if you're
lucky, you may
find someone that will become your mentor. They may not
be in a
position to hire you, but they (we) are generally connected to
the
pulse of the hiring market and know when someone is looking to
expand
or hire a replacement. They can also help you learn new
things
and correct any misconceptions you have. At the social
portion of the
event (most user groups have conversation time) find
someone who has
been a dba for a number of years and ask them if you
can talk to them.
Explain what your understanding of something is and
then pay attention
as they either correct you or add to your
knowledge. Before you know
it, you will be sitting in an
interview and the interviewer will ask you
to explain how to use
pctfree and you will know from your conversations
and
testing.
Good luck.
Stephen Andert
Scottsdale,
Arizona
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/31 2:00 AM
>>>
> Questions for a Database Administrator:
1. What is
the average salary range for an entry-level DBA position?
Or
a
position for someone who is just starting out as a
DBA?
2. In a job resume, should I request an entry-level
position or would
that
set me up for no phone calls?
3.
What are some steps I should take to becoming a DBA w/
the
background
that I have (ie. generated databases w/ MS
Access)?
a) Recommended training/education in Los Angeles
area?
b) Where do you recommend I study & is online training
valuable?
4. If I could learn Oracle software on my own
through Independent
study
(books & reference sites), could this
be sufficient enough to go about
to get
a job?
a) Is
the OCP certification necessary?
b) If I took this independent
study route instead of formal training
from
like a vocational
school, would the steps to getting a job (or even
my
OCP
certification) be the same? Or would it be more
difficult without
formal
training?
5. What are some
valuable books and resources to aid in my training?
6.
How much does Oracle9i cost & would it be worth it to get since
i
want to
learn? Are there evaluation copies out there that I
can get my hands
on?
7. What are the basic introductory
courses/resources/training I could
do to
learn or get started in DBA
training?
8. Basically, please list the steps you took to
become a DBA (starting
with
education/training to job entry) and how
you sould suggest I should go
about
starting to learn the
fundamentals and then more in depth?
Thank you!! I really
appreciate your help!!
Please, write to me
@
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
thanks!!
smiles & happy new year
2002!!!!
--
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Author: Stephen Andert
INET:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fat City Network
Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858)
538-5051
San Diego,
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Author:
Karniotis, Stephen
INET:
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Fat City Network
Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858)
538-5051
San Diego,
California -- Public Internet
access / Mailing
Lists
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REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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