Another russion proverb: "Wolf targets one sheep out of a herd, watches, waits, then charges to attack. Sheep says wait, why me, why did you pick me? Wolf replies b/c I am hungry!"
Gene >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/30/02 12:51PM >>> Beware of developers that carry screwdrivers. "Its a hardware problem, not software." -- Alan Davey [EMAIL PROTECTED] 212-604-0200 x106 On 5/30/02, Thomas Day <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >I guess it's that old Russian proverb "To a hammer, all the world >looks >like a nail." Developers have experience as hammers and everything >revolves around the code. As an ex-developer, now DBA, I know that >sometimes you need a screwdriver (or a Harvey Wall Banger). > > > > > Jay Wade > > <fish_dba To: Multiple recipients >of list ORACLE-L > @hotmail.com> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent by: root cc: > > Subject: Re: So, What >is a 'Production DBA'? > > > 05/30/2002 > > 11:08 AM > > Please > > respond to > > ORACLE-L > > > > > > > > > >I feel that it is hard to draw the lines between Application and >Production >DBA's. For example where would you place the DBA that "maintains" >SAP? >Without the application knowledge he/she/it wouldn't get very far. > Also I >have been wondering something and this thread seems a good place >to ask. >Is >there a historical feud between DBA's and Developers? Coming from >a >consulting/software house I find some of the comments funny but can't >believe that there is that quantity of bad developers. Most of the >DBA's >we >deal with have come up through the ranks and started as developers. > > > > >>From: "Ron Rogers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>Subject: Re: So, What is a 'Production DBA'? >>Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 04:48:29 -0800 >> >>Rachel, >> I agree with your short list of the areas of responsibilities >but I >>would change the word "application" to "development". An application >>DBA, from the people I have talked to, is quite busy performing >the >>upgrades and patches that accompany the Oracle Applications. The >>applications database generally has many, many tables, triggers >and >>constraints and is constantly the target for upgrades and patches >from >>Oracle. It is a time consuming task as the majority of the different >>applications (financial, HR, Purchase Order, etc) have "hooks" into >each >>different package and are so intertwined that any small fix in one >>involves patches for the others. There are only a few user defined >>tables as each package has their own named tables that are partially >>shared between packages. There is very little if any work you can >do on >>the application code because it is so intertwined and customized >when it >>is installed. Any upgrades require that the "customization" be reworked >>to make it fit into the new version of the application package. >> It takes a longer time to install than a standard database, on >the >>magnitude of days, and requires a dedicated and investigative mind >set >>to maintain. >> >>To the list you created I would add: >>Help desk call recipient, >>network support, >>client support, >>software and hardware evaluation, >>"whipping" post, >>IT team member (possibly team leader), >>self driven, >>office coffee maker, >>consumer of various liquids. >> >>Ron >>ROR mª¿ªm >> >> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/29/02 04:50PM >>> >>that's not a bad definition :) >> >>seriously, everyone will have their own definition, mine is: >> >>production dba -- responsible for all databases that are considered >>"production". this includes but is not limited to: >> >>backups >>recovery testing >>contingency testing >>production performance tuning (should mostly be database tuning >as SQL >>really should be tuned at the development stage, with information >>passed back from the production DBA) >>documentation of all procedures >>space management on production systems, including capacity planning >>and >>projection of growth >>change management >>monitoring external data loads into production database >>health checks on production database >> >>application dba -- responsible for all databases in which developers >>have access. responsibilities: >> >>SQL tuning (not SQL coding!) >>database design, in conjunction with the developers >>any and all changes to the application schema >>working with the production DBA to ensure production performance >(see >>SQL tuning!) >>backups (these might be weekly offline backups, as development is >>usually less critical but then again maybe not) >>as deadlines creep closer, the "weekends off" may not be >> >>this is just the "short" list >> >>I've usually been both the production and application dba where >I've >>worked. >> >>Rachel >> >> >>--- Peter Barnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > We are having this debate. What is a 'Production >> > DBA'? Right now all of the DBAs do some of >> > everything. In an effort to focus more DBA time on >> > infrastructure, damagement is floating the idea of >> > Production and Applications DBAs. The DBA group has >> > loosely translated this into the group that is always >> > on-call and the group that gets their weekends off. >> > >> > I would appreciate some input from those of you who >> > are Production DBAs. >> > >> > >> > >> > ===== >> > Pete Barnett >> > Lead Database Administrator >> > The Regence Group >> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > >> > __________________________________________________ >> > Do You Yahoo!? >> > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup >> > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com riggers >and >>constr >> > -- >> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com >> > -- >> > Author: Peter Barnett >> > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > >> > Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 >> > San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing >> > Lists >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > To REMOVE yourself from this mail >>ing list, send an E-Mail message >> > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') >and in >> > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L >> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You >may >> > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). >> >> >>__________________________________________________ >>Do You Yahoo!? >>Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup >>http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com >>-- >>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com >>-- >>Author: Rachel Carmichael >> INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >>Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 >>San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing >Lists >>-------------------------------------------------------------------- >>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message >>to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and >in >>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L >>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You >may >>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). >>-- >>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com >>-- >>Author: Ron Rogers >> INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >>Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 >>San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing >Lists >>-------------------------------------------------------------------- >>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message >>to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and >in >>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L >>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You >may >>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > >-- >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com >-- >Author: Jay Wade > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 >San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing >Lists >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and >in >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may >also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > > > >-- >Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com >-- >Author: Thomas Day > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] oo.com riggers >and >>constr > >Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 >San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing >Lists >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message >to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and >in >the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L >(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may >also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Alan Davey INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Gene Sais INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California -- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists -------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
