RE: RE : RMAN Repository

[Orr, Steve]

Title: RE: RE : RMAN Repository

Hey Brian,

 

I only talk about the way it SHOULD be... not what I actually do.  :-)

 

I confess to presently using the suppository, er a repository but anticipate just using control files after we upgrade to 9i with its enhanced RMAN features. I have a shell script with parameters and if it's a non-catalog backup I also backup the controlfiles. I don't anticipate problems with exceeding max files. I create a daily ASCII file with a listing of the all the database files. Not sure what else you're looking for.

 

> Do you accept losing the backup history and cross fingers

Huh??? I have CONTROL_FILE_RECORD_KEEP_TIME set to 7 or 14 days, I forget which. But I don't anticipate having to recover from a prior "incarnation" when I have a perfectly good backup from the last successful backup. I once had to do a PITR to recover dropped tables that weren't noticed until 5 days later. To do this I created another database on another server, did the PITR then restored the specific tables while all the other tables remained current. I was able to do this without a repository.

 

I have some scripted recovery scenarios which I occasionally practice on a test machine. Hmmm... it's been a while and it's a new year so it's probably a good time to review and test backup/recovery scenarios. Recover scenarios should include something like the following: loss of a non-system, non-rollback segment datafile; loss of a rollback segment datafile; loss of a system datafile; recovering a temporary tablespace; loss of 1 or all controlfiles; restoring archivelogs; a complete database restore; loss of inactive online redo log; loss of current online redo log; database server meltdown and recovery to a replacement server, PITR and tablespace PITR...

 

Who said backup and recovery was boring?  :-)

 

 

Steve Orr

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Spears, Brian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 2:54 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository

I agree Steve, and thanks for the info.

 Do you have any procedures to cover backup logic holes if you

have to rebuild the controlfile for some reason (Ie.. maximum files reached etc)

Do you accept losing the backup history and cross fingers or ... have procedure

to account for that?

 

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: Orr, Steve [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 4:07 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository

You can have a very large site and still do just fine without an RMAN
repository. RE the "non-database solution," Oracle has already done that,
it's called the controlfile. I tend to agree with Robert F. who "wrote the
book" on RMAN where, in another post he wrote, "I actually find the repository
of little use. If I have an enterprise with many databases then I will use it
for reporting but that's about it. It just seems to complicate the overall administrative 

costs and thus, the burden/benefit ratio is not all that good."

Use of the RMAN repository WAS "strongly recommended" by Oracle in the past
but things have changed and that "truism" no longer holds. You can see this
transition if you compare the recommended practices in the current Oracle
documentation against recommended practices in the old docs (8.0 or even the
7.X EBU stuff). I'm not the least bit surprised that Oracle is working on
eliminating this silly dependency on another database. The only dependencies
should be, "Is the Oracle software installed on the machine you want to
recover to and does it have access to the backup media?"

IMHO,  :-)
Steve Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 12:24 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: RE : RMAN Repository

Steve - My theory is that if your site is sufficiently large to be worth
considering an RMAN catalog configuration, then you can easily find a
location for it. For us, that was easily solved. If Oracle had created a
non-database solution, then that would have become a development project all
its own. And people would have pointed out the contradiction of a database
company creating a non-database solution. And we would have whined about
having to learn a non-SQL interface. But where Larry is concerned I would
never count out the profit motive.

Dennis Williams
DBA, 40%OCP
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 12:18 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

Yeah but do you have to pay for another Veritas NetBackup license and server
to backup the catalog? If just have one database server and one database
license why should I have to buy another license and install another 1-2GB
of Oracle software on another server? The only answer I can think of is so
Larry can spend more money on yachts, planes, and cars.

Contrary to Oracle Corporate aspirations, not all data in the universe
really needs to be stored in Oracle databases, especially backup information
about Oracle databases I want to backup. If I need a database to backup a
database then do I need another database to backup the database that backed
up the original database? ;-) Seems the simple solution to this silliness is
just to remove the requirement of having a database to backup a database.

Steve Orr

-----Original Message-----
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ]
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:50 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Orr, Steve
Importance: High

> The overhead of the repository database is more. With the initial
releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly
> criticized for the fact that you had to backup the database that holds
information about the database you want to backup.
> Getting rid of this silliness seems reasonable to me.

Why silly?

It isn't any more silly than making a separate backup of the Veritas
Netbackup catalog.

It's just a different level of abstraction.

Jared

"Orr, Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 01/09/2003 08:45 AM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
        To:     Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
        cc:
        Subject:        RE: RE : RMAN Repository

If you aren't using a repository all you have to do is make sure control
file backups are part of the routine. There are 2 ways to backup the
backup metadata: 1) the RMAN repository database; 2) backup controlfiles.
Functionally and operationally they're pretty much the same. The only
things you can't do with controlfile RMAN/database metadata is: 1) use
previous "incarnations" of the database for recovery; 2) use database
stored scripts. No big deal as far as I'm concerned.
When RMAN first came out a separate repository database was a requirement.
Subsequent releases added some functionality for using controlfiles. The
vulnerability of losing the repository or losing the backup controlfile is
about equivalent. The overhead of the repository database is more. With
the initial releases of RMAN (EBU) Oracle was rightly criticized for the
fact that you had to backup the database that holds information about the
database you want to backup. Getting rid of this silliness seems
reasonable to me.

Steve Orr-man for RMAN,
Bozeman, Montana

-----Original Message-----
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ]
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:14 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Importance: High

And how does one go about restoring a database when all control files
are lost, and the only recovery data is stored in the control file?
This doesn't sound very reasonable.
Jared

"Deshpande, Kirti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 01/08/2003 11:44 AM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L
 
        To:     Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
        cc:
        Subject:        RE : RMAN Repository
Joe,
 That's what I have heard (from 2 Oracle University
Professors/Lecturers/Demonstrators). But no one would tell me when it may
happen. We do not use RMAN (yet) so I did not pursue it further.
- Kirti
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:08 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
<snip>
Obilgatory oracle statement/question:  rumor has it by some instructors
that RMAN repository is going away and only control file recoveries
will be possible, truth or fiction?
joe