I don't normally like to get into these turf battles, but in this case I have to agree with Patrice. Most developers are looking strictly at their current project with no regard for anything they've done in the past or that others around them are doing. Also I find that a significant number of developers have an attitude that what they did in the past is sufficient for the future & no new functionality in the database or elsewhere is needed. Believe it or not, we still have a test engineering programmer who uses Turbo Pascal. My greatest frustration is people who demand to write applications strictly in a client server mode. They see no benefit into encapsulating processes that are very database intensive into packages/procedures/functions. So instead of one round trip to the database they have to do 30 or 40 and wonder why they can't get sub second response from their application.
Dick Goulet Senior Oracle DBA Oracle Certified 8i DBA -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 9:14 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L not arrogance, experience. Granted, there are good developers out there. The tendency is to think only on a project by project basis in development because of the way developers sometimes get funding to sustain themselves. No offense was intended, it was a cautionary note nothing more. Patrice. -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 8:54 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L the arrogance here is troubling. though there seems to be more incompetent developers who do not know the database I have worked with my share of incompetent DBAs. Havent used anything since versoin 5.0 and so on. Dont know anything at all about development. If a production DBA knows development, fine, their opinion is valuable, if they are an SA/DBA who cant code, cant design a system, then their opinion is not very valuable. Ive seen lots of silly roadmaps put up by production DBAs who dont know nearly as much as lead on. What large enterprise systems need is an experienced Systems Architect. Im not one of those, but they do wonders for projects and they should work with the DBA to decide the best way to implement something. > > From: "Boivin, Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2003/11/21 Fri AM 07:12:13 EST > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: Development vs. Production DBA > > LOL -- developers deciding architecture design. Never really involved in > implementing anything, all conceptual. > > I am what you call a "production DBA", my personal bias on this is that > leaving architecture decisions to developers could be a mistake, if you > think long term. The Production DBA should be involved, and should have the > ability to veto any hair-brained scheme that is proposed. > > Patrice. > > -----Original Message----- > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 12:20 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L > > > I don't know about a paper, but I've always made a distinction > between these types of DBAs as well. > > Development DBA responsibilities: > - initial DB design > - data modelling, data dictionary creation > - naming standards, datatype standards > - sql development > - working w/ front end developers, tuning queries > - data load, legacy to current > > Production DBA responsibilties: > - day to day administrative support: adding users, creating > schemas, moving objects around > - backup/recovery > - disaster recovery > - monitoring > - Troubleshooting, working with Oracle Tech Support > - Database P&T concerns: buffer pools, tablespace objects, etc. > > > I would NOT force developers to funnel through the DBA to create objects > in development. What a roadblock that could be. Instead, have the dba > be available as a resource to the developers to handle query tuning > concerns, answer SQL questions and the like. > > my 2 cents. > > Boss > > > > > > > Group, > > If this was discussed before, I missed it. > > There is a discussion going on trying to define the duties of a > development > > vs. production DBA and where in-depth DBA involvement should occur. Is > there > > any papers that anyone can share w/me on this subject. IMHO a DBA should > be > > involved early on in the project to translate the functional requirements > > into a physical model using the features of the target version. I also > think > > that it should be the DBA's job to create the packages, procedures and > > triggers in the development and testing phases. To me,this would > facilitate > > the transition from testing to production. Our development DBA's are > > involved in the production side so are aware of our standards. > > Comments, opinions please. > > > > TIA > > > > Al Rusnak > > DBA - WEB Team/CISIS, Computer Operations > > > > * 804-734-8371 > > * [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > -- > > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > > -- > > Author: Rusnak, George A. (SEC-Lee) CTR > > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > > San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > > > > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: Todd Boss > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > -- > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net > -- > Author: Boivin, Patrice J > INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com > San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message > to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in > the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). > -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: <[EMAIL PROTECTED] INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services --------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services --------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Goulet, Dick INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services --------------------------------------------------------------------- To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
