Mark, As many of us have said on this forum CITES has nothing to do with conservation it is a TRADE treaty pure and simple. We must not confuse that issue. BTW when I asked the CITES Secretariat's Plants Officer attending the 14WOC the question "What are the orchid species that CITES has saved? his reply was that CITES is not a conservation Treaty but a trade Treaty and therefore he could not answer that question.
You are correct that the implementing laws are the devil in the details so to speak, but if we can get the Treaty changed then hopefully the changes will roll down to the local laws. But first we have to change the Treaty. Nothing that was proposed at IOCC 2004 had anything to do with local implementation. If the inspectors never see hybrids and don't have to process them, then they will have more time to their other work. There are many things where self certification is excepted, I would assume something could be worked out along these lines. Yes hybrids are excluded but just try and ship a box of hybrids without CITES documentation. The only exception is for hybrid Phalaenopsis where each box contains 100 or more plants of the same grex. This exemption is only a test and is not as yet permanent. From what I understand no one is using this exemption because they are afraid that they will have their plants confiscated because they don't have CITES documentation, notwithstanding what the Treaty states. As to hybrids from legal plants. As I understand it that has not yet been adopted by the COP, but is being proposed by Germany at the upcoming meetings. Notwithstanding, some countries have already implemented this interpretation of the Treaty. icones ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 5:39 PM Subject: [OGD] Re: conservation congress - report > icones, > > Taking an example of a shipment of a few boxes of Paphiopedilums, what > are the mechanisms that will save inspectors time and effort? Will the > importing country inspectors take a shippers or exporting countrys > word that all the Paphiopedilums are hybrids and are in compliance with > CITES? It is hardly a step more to taking a shippers or exporting > countrys word that any shipment of orchids hybrids or species is in > compliance with CITES, paper work included. > > What species conservation measures will be given the time and effort > saved by the inspectors because of the exclusion of all hybrids from > CITES and CITES Documentation? > > Most orchid hybrids are already excluded from CITES, does this proposed > provision of all hybrids be excluded from CITES and CITES > Documentation include hybrids that are from parents that are not in > compliance of CITES or are questionable? Can hybrids of species orchids > that have never legally been exported from their native country be > legally shipped from that country even though the parents may have been > illegally removed from the wild? (no CITES provisions would have been > broken because the parents are in their native country) > > One of the problems with CITES is rules are made but the procedures for > countries to follow are not spelled out leaving member countries to > interpret such rules by creating their own procedures. The procedures to > follow are just as important as the rule. I am still having a hard time > seeing how making a rule as all hybrids be excluded from CITES and > CITES Documentation will save much time and effort, and how that > savings will translate into orchid conservation. > > > Mark Sullivan > > Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 09:45:33 -0400 > From: "icones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "the OrchidGuide Digest \(OGD\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [OGD] Re: conservation congress - report > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Precedence: list > Reply-To: "the OrchidGuide Digest \(OGD\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Message: 6 > > Mark, > > The reason is, that the hybrids are taking up so much of the inspectors time > and effort that species truly requiring conservation are being more or less > ignored. Just a simple "lets put our efforts on what needs conservation". If > you recall the treaty specifically identifies species, but the authorities > have opted to include hybrids, notwithstanding what the treaty states. > > Its kind of like the speed limit being 100km per hour but the police decide > to start giving tickets at 80km per hour, notwithstanding the law. > > icones > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- _______________________________________________ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
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