RE: Multiple User Debugging Env? Doesnt' Exist?

[Tom Wnuk]

I would agree with Darren, each developer should have their own instance of Orion Server running on their own desktop. I'm assuming their machines are big enough and if you're using any of the full featured IDE's like VisualAge, VisualCafe, or JBuilder, than they probably can handle an instance of Orion.   One of the kindest things Evermind is doing is allowing developers free use of their software for development purposes.  Allaire just recently announced that same approach, why, because when you the developers use your software they're most likely to recommend it's use for production.  I digress, sorry.   Trying to share an instance of the web server for developing servlets is futile.  I've been developing enterprise applications since 1983 on my PC, some were strictly PC apps others were mainframe Cobol, and most were distributed using C/C++ and now Java.  I can't imagine sharing a development environment with other developers at least not until you get to integrated testing.   You'll be amazed at how the time for development actually reduces and you can end up with more features and a more solid product.  If it takes someone 5 days to do something in a shared environment that would take 2 in a dedicated one, by the time the 5th day rolls around they won't feel like spending more time testing and fine tuning their piece.     I think the biggest challenge will be to ensure you have someone who really understands the Orion environment, otherwise, all is lost.  There are a lot of developers that don't want to know how to admin a piece of software like Orion Server, they just want to be users.  If that's the case, then I would think about running multiple instances of Orion on the server for each developer or teams of developers assuming you have at least one person who now becomes a dedicated admin resource.   my 2 cents. Tom     -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Steven Punte Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 1:51 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Multiple User Debugging Env? Doesnt' Exist? Dear Darren:       Thank for you reply.  I'm coming to the same conclusion,     and I would like to ask the Orion community at large, how     does everyone do debugging?         1)    Do you set up individual web servers for each developer,             and thus use a normal debugging convention?       2)    Is there any way to share a server, in particular, allow             debugging by various developer of their actives, while             allowing other user to work normally.         I'm coming to believe this later paradigm (i.e. "2") is not     ever done and is probably impractical.         What environment do you have for debugging?       Any comments welcomed.   STeve Punte e-Business Software Architect Technologent Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- Original Message ----- From: Darren Gibbons To: Orion-Interest Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 12:18 PM Subject: RE: Real Debuggin On Orion? How Steven,   AFAIK, there does not exist the ability to do what you're looking for with any application server/IDE combo.  I think you are going to be stuck running the entire application server in debug mode to step through the code.   While I haven't tried it with Orion, I've debugged servlets in Resin using the 1.3 JDK, the JPDA (http://java.sun.com/products/jpda/) and Forte (http://www.sun.com/forte/).  I don't see why this wouldn't work the same for Orion.   To get around the issues with multiple developers, you might want to use CVS, a central "unit test" development server, and individual servers installed on each of the developers machines.  Developers would check out the code to their local machine, test on their local copy of Orion (with the ability to run it in debugging mode without screwing everyone else up) and post their changes back to the unit test server to check for completeness.   As a side note, CVS is a good thing if you're not using it already, especially when multiple developers get into the mix...   Darren. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Steven Punte Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 10:28 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: Real Debuggin On Orion? How Rob:       Thanks for the reply.       From your description it sounds like the operation and control     of tomcat is taken over by the IDE.  No one else would be     able to use this server while you are in this debug mode.       This same strategy should/must be doable for Orion or     any other java based server.       Perhaps my desire to have a server BOTH be running     for some users, and also be able to support a debugging     mode is too much to ask for.       Sincerely:           Steve Punte       ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Lapensee To: Steven Punte ; Orion-Interest Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 10:22 AM Subject: RE: Real Debuggin On Orion? How Perhaps I should clarify…   Strictly speaking of servlets, not JSP’s. Tomcat can be ‘imported’ into IBM Visual Age for Java. Once this is done, a small java program can be written to start up tomcat from within the IBM Visual Age for Java IDE. If a break point is set on any servlet code, since Tomcat is running within IBM Visual Age for Java, then when the browser hits the correct servlet, and the correct line of code, it will stop the servlet and show the code on the IDE in debugging mode.  At this point you can step through the program line by line.  The browser will wait until the servlet completes to show any results.   Again the full information is somewhere in www.ibm.com/vadd   Note that I used IBM Visual Age professional, which does not have WebSphere in it.   Regards,   Rob Lapensee Director of Technology Delfour Corporation [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.delfour.com   -----Original Message----- From: Steven Punte [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 12:38 PM To: Rob Lapensee; Orion-Interest Subject: Re: Real Debuggin On Orion? How   Rob:       Thanks for the reply.        This is very interesting.  So WebSphere has the ability to allow  a     particular thread, and their dependences, to be debugged without     putting the entire server into debug mode.   Is this a correct     perception of you statement, or is the debugging mode taking     over the server completely and it is not usable by other when     in this mode?       Sincerely           STeve Punte       ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Lapensee To: Orion-Interest Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 4:30 AM Subject: RE: Real Debuggin On Orion? How   Put my vote in for IBM Visual Age for Java support.   All you would need to do is get Orion to run within IBM Visual Age.  I have tried this, but it doesn’t work. It works quite well with Tomcat, and I can debug servlets very nicely (www.ibm.com/vadd has details on how to do this). But I would really like to be able to debug EJB’s from within the IDE.   This also begs the question of what Orion themselves are using. Is it straight JDK, or one of the IDE’s?     Regards,   Rob Lapensee Director of Technology Delfour Corporation [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.delfour.com   -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Steven Punte Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2000 7:29 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: Real Debuggin On Orion? How   Dear Orion, and Orion Users:       How does one do serious servlet and server side java bean debugging     on orion?       I understand how I could run the jdb debugger on the entire Orion     server, but I expect a more user friendly and productive mechanism     on a commercial product.  In particular, I have several developers     all using the same orion process to server from.       Being that Orion is 100% Java, and how wonderful Java is, is      there, or is the Orion company working on a way, that I as     a developer could debug a particular thread which is     initiated by the browser I'm using?  And it would be nice     if it an IDE could interface with it.       Sure, it is not straight forward to implement, but something     that is desperately needed by developers.        And, yes, send me a million dollars while your at it!  :-)   STeve Punte e-Business Software Architect Technologent Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED]