I've been working with the swiftmq beta release (with Orion) and I have noticed that Marc Fleury has also spread his charm to the folks over on that list. The developers at Swiftmq have essentially been told to "piss off" by JBoss (I assume by Marc, since the tone is the same). --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Wow. I know people have complained about this list being a little slow, but > if this is what I get from the lead developer of JBoss on how to fix up > JBoss performance to compare to Orion's, then ... well ... perhaps I should > be spending more time on this list. I'm a little disappointed. I have some > interest in both JBoss and Orion, and it's frustrating to get this kind of a > response from a key player in the JBoss community. > > - Geoffrey > > : -----Original Message----- > : From: marc fleury [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > : Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 2:34 PM > : To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > : Subject: RE: [JBoss-user] Redux of Performance Issues > : > : > : look dude, > : > : get the integrated jboss-tomcat stack you are running > : non-optimized out of > : stack, period. > : > : come back when you have set it up, or don't we don't care, > : > : marcf > : > : |-----Original Message----- > : |From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > : |[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > : |[EMAIL PROTECTED] > : |Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 2:09 PM > : |To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > : |Subject: [JBoss-user] Redux of Performance Issues > : | > : | > : |For reasons unknown, this message hasn't been going out to the > : |list. Trying > : |again. > : | > : |-- > : | > : |Okay, I've clearly managed to piss off a few people by my > : concerns about > : |JBoss performance. > : | > : |Let me start out by saying that I'd be more than happy to get my > : |application > : |working speedily under JBoss. Orion's documentation is poor > : at best, and > : |JBoss is fully open-source. I have a great deal of respect > : for some of > : |JBoss's technology (the verifier and deployer are probably > : the best I've > : |seen), and where it's coming from. I chose JBoss for the initial > : |development because of its reputation and my own interests. > : | > : |That said, if the performance I'm getting out of JBoss is > : the best I can > : |expect, or, at least, the best I can manage to get, then I > : |absolutely cannot > : |use it. Not because I think it 'sucks rocks', because it > : doesn't, but > : |simply because it will not support the user load I need it to in > : |any sort of > : |cost-effective manner. Some of you would probably be just > : as happy to see > : |me go somewhere else, from the tone of your emails, but I'd > : personally > : |rather find a way to get the performance out of JBoss, for > : this or other > : |projects. > : | > : |And, ultimately, it seems as if the performance I'm asking for is > : |relatively > : |reasonable. I expect a certain amount of overhead in EJB > : performance, and > : |I'm not asking to duplicate the speed of a bean-only > : implementation. But > : |supporting a maximum of 25 concurrent users on a decent (if > : not maxed-out) > : |server seems ... suspiciously slow. > : | > : |It may be that I've missed some settings to speed things up. It > : |may be that > : |our application's architecture is better suited to Orion > : than to JBoss. > : |Whatever it is, I'd like to find out. So I've joined the > : JBoss list, and > : |I'm here to ask some questions. I'm not trying to promote > : Orion, or insult > : |JBoss. I like bits of both of them, and the reasons for > : that, I can get > : |into another day. Ultimately, however, I'd rather support > : JBoss as an > : |open-source appserver, if I can. > : | > : |-- > : | > : |Now, on to the details. Some of you pointed out, and > : rightly so, that I > : |hadn't provided much in the way of details of what I've > : tried, which is > : |true. I wanted to start off by finding out if the kind of > : numbers I was > : |talking about seemed realistic or not, based on the > : experience of people > : |who'd spent more time with JBoss than I have, but it's > : probably fair to say > : |that you couldn't really say without knowing a lot more about my > : |application. So let's get into a few details. > : | > : |Let's start with versions. I did some of my original EJB > : |experimentation on > : |JBoss-2.4.1. We started developing a project on > : JBoss-2.4.1a w/ Embedded > : |Tomcat, which was the latest JBoss/Tomcat grouping at the > : time. We started > : |noticing performance concerns then. When Tomcat 4 came out, > : we moved to > : |JBoss-2.4.3 w/ Embedded Catalina, so that we could try a few > : things, and > : |found it not to be slower, so we stayed with it. > : | > : |After we reached a point where we needed to see better > : performance, we did > : |some optimizing of our app with a profiler, and tried JBoss > : 2.4.3 w/ Resin, > : |which we already knew to be fast. That gave us a minor speed > : |boost, but not > : |very much, leading me to believe that JBoss might be the > : cause of some of > : |our performance. By comparison, Orion 1.5.2 seems to be > : very much faster. > : | > : |All of this is running on Windows 2000. The versions of > : Tomcat are 3.2.3 > : |and 4.0, as far as I know. The version of Resin is the latest > : |version as of > : |a few weeks ago, I'd have to go check. If it's important, I will. > : | > : |Processor speed depended, but developers are working, largely, on > : |PIII-700MHzs, and we did most of our load-testing on a Ghz P4. > : | > : |Tuned updates are on, jaws debug is off, and logging was set > : as low as we > : |really could expect it to be. > : | > : |Our performance numbers were derived in several ways - by using the > : |Microsoft Web Application Stress tool (since we've used that > : in the past, > : |and haven't yet found a better alternative; if you have > : suggestions, I'm > : |happy to hear them), watching memory/processor load on the box > : |being tested, > : |junit test times and subjective experience. > : | > : |Our initial concerns came out of JUnit test times. Our EJB tests > : |(which are > : |pretty thorough, I'll admit) are taking several seconds, > : whereas the time > : |required to test a hand-rolled bean solution was usually > : well, well under a > : |second. HttpUnit tests are taking tens of seconds, instead > : of seconds. > : |This began to concern me, but we didn't need performance at > : an early stage, > : |and I knew I could replace Tomcat and/or JBoss if necessary. > : | > : |Once we started to use the Web Application Stress Tool, > : though, we started > : |to get really concerned. After some profiling to speed a > : few things up, we > : |were unable to get more than about 20 simultaneous users on > : the application > : |without slowing things down significantly, getting Time To Last > : |Byte on some > : |of the more intense pages up past ten seconds, which is far > : too long. Even > : |running Resin and JBoss together was getting us only up to 25. The > : |processor usage on the server while the load test was running was > : |practically solid at 100% for the bulk of the test and the > : JVM doesn't seem > : |to be using up all the memory it has already, so we didn't > : increase the JVM > : |memory space. > : | > : |By comparison, under Orion, I can get 350 users on the same > : |application, and > : |the processor load is only up around 65%. > : | > : |This concerns me. The application is going to be used by quite > : |probably 200 > : |users at once, possibly double or triple that, on a regular > : basis, and > : |perhaps up to 2000 users under peak loads. That's not a > : |massively-heavy web > : |application, in my mind. Not being able to get past 25 users > : |under JBoss is > : |just not going to cut it, so if I have to put up with poor > : documentation, > : |closed source, and shelling out for an orion deployment > === message truncated ===
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