I think we should invite MQA people or the guy who responsible drafting the document to be Open Education Council (OEC) member :)
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 9:13 AM, Tajul Azhar bin Mohd Tajul Ariffin <pislissnif...@gmail.com> wrote: > I think MQA is not under Ministry of Education. > It is corporate agency that handles all qualification of Universities. In the > government agency hieracry, MQA sit under Ministry of Higher Education > (Kementerian Pengajian Tinggi). > There is a few cases whereby certain courses not been certified not because > of the syllabus, but because of management of universities not applying for > certification from MQA. > > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device via Vodafone-Celcom Mobile. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Boh Yap <bhy...@gmail.com> > Sender: osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com > Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 08:54:40 > To: <osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com>; <pytho...@googlegroups.com> > Reply-To: osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com > Subject: [osdcmy] Why our Unis turn out such poor quality IT grads. - long > rant > > hi all, > > here's another rant, its directed at our Educational system, but done > in a less brutal way than the 'last' nuclear exchange between Red and > Rafe ;-) Sabar guys you both got your points, .... > > Have a read and pls comment... > > Critique of MQA Computing Program Document > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Ah, I make a bold claim, I finally may have figured out a possible > reason why our august Universities produce thousands of graduates that > are 'unemployable' as far as IT is concerned. The blame must solely > rest on the shoulders of the MQA (Malaysia Qualifications Agency) > under the Min. of Edu. Its also known as LAN (Lembaga Accredition > Negara) > > http://www.mqa.gov.my/ > > This 'organ' sets the 'standards'(sic) for all HEPs(Higher Education > Providers) in the country, both local and foreign. Yes, even if MIT or > Harvard were to set up here, their 'standards' will be governed by > them! And it covers not only IT, but also Bitotechnology, Medicine and > Health Sc. etc.... > > I downlaoded a PDF on the subject area of Computing: > http://www.mqa.gov.my/garispanduan/ENGLISH%20Computing_6.1.10_doc.pdf > > This does not cover all parts of IT, Netwk Engin.(SysAdmin) etc.. is > handled by other docs. > (so this rant may not apply to the Netwk Engineers, SysAdmins etc..) > > But it covers all aspects of higher edu for 'Computing': > > - the type of courses and professionals it develops, presumably > for our HR needs... > > - the qualifiactions required to enter and awarded upon completion, > > - the 'programme objectives' what the course try to achive, the > type fo skills > grads. will have > > - what the syllabus should cover > > - the accredition, way marks/grading are accorded > > - Learning Outcomes, what skills/knowledge the grads. will be > equipped with (!?) > > note: > Compared to a similar document for BioTech and Engineering, the curriculum > seeems to be far less detailed when compared to IT. A lot of freedom seems > to be given to instituitions to determine their own. Why then should our > industry be so closely scrutinised? > > As a quick summary, here are my interpretations, I may be wrong, and > if so soemone please prove me wrong! > > It seems 'programming skills' are not required for BSc grads, but are > required for Diploma grads WTF, !? (Learning Outcomes, Diploma, pg > 14,i). It seems 'programming' is considered a lowly skill suitable for > Diploma holders, whereas BSc grads are suppose to be System Analysts > and and Proj. Managers!? And BSc grads are suppose to have > 'entrepeneurial' skills (pg15 Generic Learning Outcomes, vi) - so they > can be the next Facebook I suppose... > > If this is true, it sets a dangerous and unreal expectations for the > students! No wonder most Comp. Sc. grads. don't want to do programming > or can't code! And they want to be SAs and PMs? No Way! Without > knowing or having done extensive programming, they won't have the > depth of knowledge to manage progrmmers, let alone win their respect. > They won't be able to evaluate the complexity and timeline required > without understanding the tools or its methodology. Worst still, they > will end up making the technical decisions, instead of the programmers > that are actually doing the work! (Does a construction site-supervisor > tell his carpenter what tools he should use? NO!) It just means they > make 'dumb' managers which the coders can fool! > > Also they (grads) probably think they don't need to do programming, > and they can straightaway be PMs and SAs.... but the market and > employers certainly don't agree! > > Holy Dilbert! The fact is that our Unis are producing PHBs (Pointy > Haired Bosses) the clueless yet arrogant boss of Dilbert in the comic > strip! > > Haris(OSDC) was trying to form a committee to try and introduce FOSS > into Education. I would think the work should start with the MQA. Also > who are the people that make such major decisions that affect the > future of our nation, are they qualified? Do they have industry > experiance? Are they free of vested interested? Are there HW or SW > vendors among them? > > I think most of you who are serious about parctising IT and developing > the SW industry in Malaysia will agree with me that some of these > decisions are seriously flawed. > I certainly hope that such errors in judgement are due to the fact > that they have been misinformed, and HOPEFULLY they will allow us, > members of the FOSS community to provide an alternative POV. > > > Below are the rest of my rant.... based on sections of the document, > you may have to read it to get the full details, I have included some > quotes taken from the docuemnt, they are like this "....", the rest is > my inputs. Also those sections 'notes:' > > I would welcome all comments, especially from the authority concerned, > lets have a healthy discussion on this. And no F words ;-) > > > Intro: > ------ > No date as to when the docuemnt was drafted. The file name carries > a probable date, but > the document itself does not have a date, change-history or list > of authors, strange! The BioTech > document has all these! > It acknoledges that Computing moves at a amazing pace, yet if rate > of change is so critical, > this document should have a date and be revised at regular > intervals by 'authorised experts'. > > It defines the "Programme Standards for Computing" for the following > certification levels: > Certificate (Malaysian Qualifications Framework MQF Level 3), > Diploma (MQF Level 4), > Bachelor’s Degree (MQF Level 6), > Master’s Degree (MQF Level 7) and Doctoral Degree (MQF Level 8) > > Objectives (Pg 6) > ---------- > "These standards are designed to encourage diversity of approach > within a framework > that is compatible with the national and global human resource > requirements and the > socio-economic needs. They cannot be seen as a syllabus and no > form of prescription > is intended in the amount of time devoted to each component or the > order in which > the material is presented. Higher Education Providers are expected > to combine, > teach and assess the subject matter creatively > " > > "The development and implementation of this Programme Standards is > to ensure that the > graduates meet the professional requirements and expectations in their > respective fields. Higher Education Providers must take cognisance of > the rapidly evolving subject matter and introduce effective and > sustainable programme improvement. In doing so, the providers should > also ensure that the graduates obtain the necessary skills to function > effectively > " > > comment: > from what I have been told, the HEPs (Higher Edu Providers) > have to stick > to this pretty closely. Either that or I have been misled, and > academia were > too lazy to create their own syllabus and just accepted what was pushed > upon them. > > Coverage: (pg 10) > --------- > I am just looking at the BSc degree programs.... but theres all the rest, > from Certificate to PHd! > > It defines curricular and standards for 4 professional fields: > and with its definition... > > Computer Sc > ------------ > Produce Computer Scientists who can work in a wide range > of fields from > theorectical research, SW development and drive > innovation. It offers a > wide foundation to allow studens to adapt to new > technologies and ideas. > Includes web technologies, Robotics, Computer Vision, > Intelligent Systems(?), > Bioinformatics. > > note: > to 'innovate, research' is a tall order, it means > going beyond what > others has done and hence means you must already have > a very strong > foundation. Standing on the shoulders of giants requre > that you are > familiar with the giant! > > Information System > ------------------- > Integrate IT with business processes to provide solutions > for entreprises. > View technology as a means of generating(?), processing nd > distribution of > information for (entrprises, gov...?). Practioneers are to > be familiar with > specific applications, database apps., spreadsheet Off the Shelf > SW. > > Then goes and talks about Payroll Accountg, Invrntory > Systems, etc... > > Note: > no mention of ERP systems (hey Red1, comment!), > Business Intelligence (Raja?), > how about mobile-computing and the role it an play for > entreprise, > NO FOSS! > > Information Technology > ----------------------- > Graduates are trained to focus on application, deployment, > and configuration > needs (of IT) for organisations and people over a wide > spectrum. They are > responsible for planning, infrastructure, selecting HW and > SW, and integrating > configuring and customizing these systems to meet business needs. > > note: > Personel here play a major role in selecting HW & SW > and hence impacts the > success of FOSS. > > SW Engineering > --------------- > Discipline of designing, developing and maintaining SW > that is reliable and > efficient. It must be affordable to develop and maintain > and take into account > issues like scalability and reliablity in safety > (mission-critical?) > applications. > > "Software Engineering programmes produce graduates who can > understand user > requirements and develop software systems. Software > Engineers are expected > to develop systematic models and reliable techniques for producing > high-quality software on time and within a budget." > > note: > reliable, efficient, affordable, scalable, relaible, > mission critical, > all this means FOSS right? ;-) > MQA needs to be enlightened about this! > > Programme Objectives (Bachelor, pg 10) > -------------------------------------- > Generic Programme Aims for a Bachelor’s Degree are to prepare graduates who > i. possess skills for lifelong learning, research and career > development, > ii. have communication, team, leadership and interpersonal skills, and > aware of the social, ethical and legal responsibilities, and > iii. have entrepreneurial skill and a broad business and real > world perspective. > > note: > to produce entrepreneurs, it would be helpful to equip them > with fianancial > and business skills. I don't see this being done anywhere. > Comp Sc guys are > bad at writing Biz Plans and filling out MDEC forms ;-) > > Subject to the specialisation/major/minor in a particular Bachelor’s > Degree and its > nomenclature, the Specific Programme Aims for the four (4) disciplines > identified in this > Programme Standards are: > A. Computer Science > The Programme should prepare graduates who > i. possess fundamental knowledge, principles and skills in > Computer Science, > ii. have strong analytical and critical thinking skills to > solve problems > by applying knowledge, principles and skills in Computer > Science, and > iii. possess theoretical computing knowledge in analysing, > modelling, designing, > developing and evaluating computing solutions. > > B. Information Systems > The Programme should prepare graduates who > i. possess fundamental knowledge, principles and skills in > Information Systems, > ii. have strong analytical and critical thinking skills to > solve problems by > applying knowledge, principles and skills in Information > Systems, and > Programme Standards for Computing > iii. understand business requirements and have the ability to > plan, design > and manage business Information Systems, with the > relevant technology and > knowledge to enhance organisational performance. > > note: > What? No mention of BI, Decision Support, Statitical Analysis tools > and skills here? > > C. Information Technology > The Programme should prepare graduates who > i. possess fundamental knowledge, principles and skills in I > ii. have strong analytical and critical thinking skills to > solve problems > by applying knowledge, principles and skills in > Information Technology, > iii. possess the ability to design, implement and manage Information > Technology solutions and resources, and recognise the impact of > technology on individuals, organisations and society, and > iv. possess skills to integrate various technology solutions. > > D. Software Engineering > The Programme should prepare graduates who > i. possess fundamental knowledge, principles and skills in > Software Engineering, > ii. have strong analytical and critical thinking skills to solve > problems by applying knowledge, principles and skills in > Software Engineering, and > iii. are competent in applying appropriate methodologies, models and > techniques that provide a basis for analysis, design, development, > testing and implementation, evaluation, maintenance and > documentation > of a large scale Software system. > > > Learning Outcomes: > ------------------- > Diploma > Comp. Sc. > "i. write computer programmes using at least one Industry > relevant to software > development environment (? grammatical error?)" > > Bachelors > Comp Sc. > "... > iii. demonstrate theoretical computing knowledge in > analysing, modelling, designing, developing and evaluating computing > solution > > note: > There is no mention about developing SW?? > Does that mean BS holders get to become Analysts and Project Managers, > and the lowly task of programming is left to the diploma holders? !! > > > Curriculum Design > ----------------- > for Bachelors (pg 20) > > % > Compulsory Modules: (Bahasa Kebangsaan, Pengajian Malaysia, 8-25 > Pengajian Islam/Pendidikan Moral, ?? > Core Modules & Paper 46-73 > Common > 18-29 > Speciliasation > 17-55 > Elective > 9-24 > Ind. Trng. > 5-10 > > note: > Firstly the ranges and percantages dont add up! > > What does the "Compulsory Modules have to do with Computing! > Perhaps these could be better spent on the socio-poilitical issues > related to IT, like Privacy, piracy laws. Privacy & confidentiality > ethics... > > At a rough estimate only 75-80% of the course is dedicated to > IT, and that > include Industrial Trng. If that is not relevant (as it usually is) > that > leaves only 70-75% of the course being relevant! > > In the similar document for Engineering by MQA, the Compulsory > Module takes > up 9-15% (the upper range) is less by 10% compared to > Computing! Is Computing > considered a lesser subject that needs to be 'filled-up' by > useless subjects? > > > Body of Knowledge (Bachelors, pg 42) (rest is more rant...) > ------------------------------------ > This refers to the subject matter to be covered by the various types > of courses in > the various disciplines. Looking at the tables, there are glaring ommissions! > And they are somewhat simplistic.... I am sure many can poke holes into this! > > What is MISSING!: > > 1. No mention of FOSS and the impact it has of the IT as a whole > and espcially on > the Internet, and Web apps. > Also to delve further into what FOSS can offer in the various areas: > - Cost Savings and Total Cost of Ownership > - SW relaibility and security > - Performance and efficiancy (hence requiring 'less' hardware) > - Support and speed of response to issues and problems > > 2. Cloud Computing, Virtualisation, Software as a Service all > these concepts > are left out. They obviously havn't heard of Google! > > 3. Programming paradigms and languages > > - why such a narrow focus? > expose students to a wider range of languages, because > they encourage different ways of thinking and solving problems. > Best tools for the job etc... why be a monoglot? > > Heard of Lisp, Forth, SmallTalk, PiLog...? > Or even the wildly 'common' ones like PHP, Ruby, Python, Perl > > - why no mention/comparative study between compiled/static > and dynamic /interpreted languages? > What about JIT (Just in Time compilation), or Tracing Compilers > being implemented in Javascript engines by Google and Apple/Webkit? > > - why talk only of OOP, what about Functional programming? > and when talking of OOP why no mention of SmallTalk, > the OOP language that started it all? > What about Declarative vs Imperative syntax/language? > > - Functional languages becomes more relevant in Web apps, > heard of Javascript? Its functional! So are many 'scripting' > languages. > > - no mention of CVS (Code Versioning System) or code repositories? > One of the most important 'Best Practices' in SW Engineering, > how to do SW Engineering lor? > > 4. Operating Systems concepts > - Why no mention of UNIX? It pioneered all the current > concepts (well almost) > of Operating Systems or has implementations of it... > or Linux where you can actually look at and 'tweak; the source code? > Too tough? How to do 'Research' or Innovation otherwise? > > - Concurrency, a big thing in todays multicore CPUs just gets > a mere mention.. > What about the different concurrency models: > Threading vs Processes, > Asynchronous (event based...) > preemptive vs cooperative, > coroutines and generators.. > (yes these are esoteric subject, but hey BSc guys are suppose to be > equipped to do research, leaving porgramming to the lowly > diploma holders....) > > 5. Design (& methodology, and related to Proj Management) > > The curriculum still seems to be orientated towards > classical top-down > SSADM (Struct SW Analysis and Design) from Cobol days, > that build large > monolithic SW, that take very long cycles and are obsolete > when they > are released! > > What? no mention of Agile methods for SW development?, > Xtreme Programming > etc. that have had huge success on the FOSS and internet world > > What? no mention of UML for modelling and as a design > tool? Ever heard of > the term Use Cases, Class Diagrans..? How to do OODesign > without UML?? > > What about Design Patterns? > > Concepts like shared, dynamic linked libraries. Frameworks > and why they > are different from libraries.... > > And using CVS and Code Repositories as an integral part of > projec management? > What about bug & issue tracking? > > And Unit Tests? Test Driven Design concepts? > > ...and the list goes on... > > no wonder we produce obsoleted manpower... > > > > -- > #------- > regds, > > Boh Heong, Yap > > -- > To unsubscribe from and detail about this group > http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information > > MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 > > MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification > http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert > > -- > To unsubscribe from and detail about this group > http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information > > MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 > > MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification > http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert > -- To unsubscribe from and detail about this group http://portal.mosc.my/osdc-my-mailing-list-information MOSC2011 http://fb.me/mosc2011 MOSC Survey 2011 Awareness Of OSS Certification http://survey.mosc.my/mosc-survey-2011-awareness-oss-cert
