Chris, Yes, I agree - of course - with your main point.
and the N. Y. Times article was based on a declaration of some quite eminent physicists who made that basic error to believe, that, what they can not imagine, can not happen. They did not say: "actual physics (=our map) does not see any possibility for flying" They said: "it is impossible to fly" So they were fundamentally wrong, although on the top of their science Bernd -----Original Message----- From: OSLIST [mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu]On Behalf Of Chris Corrigan Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 6:32 AM To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu Subject: Re: Givens (was: Already-thereness, Empowerment and Such) Yes Bernd, my point was that the Wright brothers, having fully understood the givens, figured out how to fly. I recently read that only weeks before they did this, the New York Times published an editorial saying that humans would never fly. Seems to me to be a prime example of what I'm talking about. This case is in fact an eloquent example of what I mean now when I say that the real "givens" are empowering and the false ones are disempowering. Dealing with real givens, we can work around them, bring to bear all the creativity and ingenuity of the human spirit alone or in groups to figure out solutions that include and transcend the givens. But I believe that the hardest givens to overcome are the ones that aren't even real: the stories we tell ourselves about why we can't do things. In that case, empowerment finally comes when one sees that the stories are simply stories, and not reality at all. To put it on a bumper sticker, it's the difference between "givens" and "give-ins" Eh? Chris --- CHRIS CORRIGAN Consultation - Facilitation Open Space Technology Bowen Island, BC, Canada http://www.chriscorrigan.com ch...@chriscorrigan.com > -----Original Message----- > From: OSLIST [mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu] On Behalf Of WB- > TrainingConsultingDevelopment > Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 6:44 AM > To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu > Subject: Re: Givens (was: Already-thereness, Empowerment and Such) > > Has nothing to do with open space, > just a note for science-metaphor using freeks: > ------------ > > Chris, > > I like your argument > but your example is only good in the sense of a metapher. > > f you look at the real history of technology, the Wright- brothers' (and > other genial technical engeneer's) approach was not the one you > described. Yet they flew. > The point is, that you forgot that there was another fact-or in the game > you unduely reduced complexity > Air: they did not invent ballistic rockets (for which your argument would > be right) > But they used aerodynamics against gravity in their art (greek: téknè) of > flying > > > > On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 14:14:18 -0800, Chris Corrigan wrote: > Without getting esoteric, one can WANT to fly, but if one advances > efforts to do so without admitting that gravity is a force to be > reckoned with, one won't get very far. However, if one accepts that > gravity is real and can be absolutely known and that it is a true > given, then one can accommodate gravity in one's quest to fly. "Okay > then" one would think, "I need to make something that accelerates me > away from the earth with more force than gravity can exert on me." > This is profoundly more empowering thought than "Screw it, gravity is > too strong. I'll never fly." It is more empowering because it > actually leads one to flight. > > * > * > ========================================================== > osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu > ------------------------------ > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu, > Visit: > > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html * * ========================================================== osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu, Visit: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html * * ========================================================== osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu, Visit: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html * * ========================================================== osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu, Visit: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
