I'm glad, we came to agreement... is seems, just kidding, and still thank you for your thoughts! Michael, I've heard from Peggy Holman a couple of years ago, that you were ready to come to Siberia... aren't you now? welcome.... and I love your text book for training for OS though Joelle did not allow me to make a copy of it without your permission even when I told her that I can not use it in Russia without translation and for using I will ask your permission. What do you think of coming, of preparing your textbook in Russian... and thank you again for your great work and support. best wishes elena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Herman" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 11:42 PM Subject: Re: speaking with Lena Marchuk and more
> yes, exactly, elena! this is the clarity and the punchline that i did > not quite get to in my long posting... thank you! we just do what we > can. it's all space. and as we open ourselves, we open more of it, for > everyone. little bit, little bit, little bit... merrily merrily > merrily... <grin> michaelh > > > > Elena A. Marchuk wrote: > > >Hi Raffi, > >just do it... OS is the great technology and I use it with my great love... > >you can not solve the problems of people untill they start to solve them themselves... > >just do what you can and how you can help, and the 'holding the space' is what sometimes people need though... they don't feel you are making the great deal... > >don't worry, be happy > >best wishes > >elena > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Raffi Aftandelian > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 6:44 PM > > Subject: Re: speaking with Lena Marchuk and more > > > > > > Dear Harrison, Lena, and anyone else who has survived (like me!) scrolling through lots of html (aargh!) in their OSlist message, > > > > Thank you for your replies. For me, there are several ways to reach the unspeakable, as Tova Averbuch put it. What we as a group/community/organization want to achieve. It is hard for me to fathom that OS is THE way. > > > > On a gut level, I know that offering OS to organizations is part of my path, not the whole path. And my questions, doubts about OS help bring me to a more nuanced and careful yet passionate and interested place (in my attitude towards the technology). > > > > I think it is hard to say at this point if OS "works" or doesn't work here in Russia. While a lot of different people use OS, there isn't yet a virtual community of Russian-speaking OS'ers. We had a listserv; and Elena liked my nickname for us: "the silent community". That was because no one posted. I attribute the non-posting and non-existence of a Russian-speaking OS community -- real or virtual-- mostly to a lack of trust overall in the former Soviet Union. It is hard for me not to have judgement about this, because I have essentially chosen to make Russia my home. Maybe at some point I'll want to go back to what I call Bushastan (hence its citizens are Bushastanis, pardon the phrase). So, I think the verdict is out. One of the values of OS and FS here, I think, is that these approaches build up that key ingredient between people: trust. > > > > In terms of OS working (while all the pre-work conditions you describe happen), that's an important point. Risking making a generalization, I think that level of thoroughness does not happen. In other words, I work really hard with clients so that these conditions (doing the preparation work fully) are observed and it is rare that I feel it has been done adequately. > > > > But I do think there may be something to OS being "oversold" as a mentor and colleague put it. I am not sure I can develop the thought. As an analogy, I think of NLP. Now, I have never been trained in NLP, but I have read a number of books by its "founders" and have a friend and colleague who consciously uses NLP as an English teacher and interpreter. Initially, the NLP crowd poo-poo'd other therapeutic approaches, specifically humanistic ones. That therapists kept clients for years dealing with problems that could be solved in a single session. Now that may have true, but NLP in psychotherapy is not the answer to everything. > > > > And I am not sure OS is the answer to everything even when the basic conditions- presence of passion, space "open", etc.- are met. But I am loving the exploration for now and I do it with heart! > > > > On a side note, is there any way of setting up receiving the OSlist digest so that I just get text and no html code? > > > > Best, > > Raffi > > * * ========================================================== [email protected] ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of [email protected]: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > > >* > >* > >========================================================== > >[email protected] > >------------------------------ > >To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > >view the archives of [email protected]: > >http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > > >To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > >http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > > > > > -- > > Michael Herman > Michael Herman Associates > 300 West North Avenue #1105 > Chicago IL 60610 USA > (312) 280-7838 > > http://www.michaelherman.com - consulting & publications > http://www.globalchicago.net - laboratory & playground > http://www.openspaceworld.org - worldwide open space > > ...inviting organization into movement > > * > * > ========================================================== > [email protected] > ------------------------------ > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of [email protected]: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > * * ========================================================== [email protected] ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of [email protected]: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
