As usual OSLIST and it's denizens seems to be going where angels fear to tread. Some may feel that we are wandering off into the realm of idle philosophical speculation, and I guess that is true to a point. I also think that this present discussion lies at the heart of what we do/don't do in Open Space.
Funda said, "is evolution possible without consciousness??" And I might ask -- are we talking about the evolution of consciousness? Or the consciousness of evolution? Or both? And not too far down the road we come to one of the great divides in World Thinking. There are those, largely in the "Scientific" West who prefer to think that matter is primary, and that over time it manifests consciousness (becomes conscious). Roughly put, we all start out as bodies (matter), then develop mental capacities, and finally (for most of us) evolve the capacity to be conscious of our selves as thinking bodies -- and then maybe even become conscious of our consciousness. Much of the rest of the world looks at the same data (progression) and comes to a radically different conclusion. Their story is that Consciousness is primary and that over time It appears (manifests) in progressively more complex and elegant expressions. From where I sit, this is truly a case of "pay your money and take your choice." I can't imagine how you would "prove" either one, and we actually have a case of a priori assumptions. And the real issue is which story makes the most sense and is most functional in terms of what you (whoever you are) want to do. The Western Story is and has been a powerful one, forming the basis of the Western Scientific enterprise. And obviously that enterprise has been rewarding, albeit with certain limitations (We have created an industrial society which is about ready to pollute us to death). With this story we find ourselves confronting such wonderful questions as the "Biological (molecular) basis of Consciousness." The alternate story -- that Consciousness is primary -- takes one to rather different places. Consciousness IS -- and over time becomes manifest in quarks, atoms, molecules, quasars -- and you and me. According to this story, when we perceive ourselves as conscious (or Consciousness) we are not doing/creating anything new -- we are simply recognizing our selves as we have always been and truly are. The Buddhists would say -- We see our original face. And the journey of life and evolution is the journey to (the recognition of) our authentic selves. Some of us move more quickly down this road and we call them mystics or saints. Most of the rest of us take our own sweet time. Anyhow . . . What on earth does this have to do with Open Space, the application of Open Space, our role in Open Space, the place and relationship of Open Space to current organizations????? The answer(s), I think, begins with yet another question. What happens when space opens? Is it the case that we are doing something novel and strange -- or rather that we have created some appropriate conditions such that what was already present becomes visable. In short we are not "learning something new" but rather remembering what we already knew -- but forgot? Personally, I find the "remembering" story to be the most compelling, or how else to explain the common experience of working with a group of folks who have had no training in esoteric skills, conflict resolution, group process -- and yet in basically 15 minites flat most are behaving as if being in Open Space was the most natural thing in the world? Maybe it is? They just remember what they had forgotten. Rather like riding a bicycle -- once you have done it you can never really forget. Our role in this situation becomes rather clear, and our anxiety level should go down. There is little to teach and less to worry about. The folks are already there, they only have to be reminded. Gently. And do you have to be a Buddhist? Probably not, but it could help. Harrison ----- Original Message ----- From: "Funda Oral" <fundao...@superonline.com> To: <osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 7:39 AM Subject: conscious of evolution as it evolves. ??? > is evolution possible without consciousness?? > > Funda > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Therese Fitzpatrick" <theresef...@hotmail.com> > To: <osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu> > Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 11:22 PM > Subject: Re: conscious of evolution as it evolves. . . > > > > I think some people are conscious of evolution as it evolves and some of > > those people tell others what they perceive. For the rest of us, > sometimes > > we believe and integrate what the people who are conscious of evolution > > share and sometimes we don't. All people are not all at the some > > evolutionary level and knowing who is where is a guessing game for some > and > > for others . . . for others, they have clearer knowing. > > > > In some cultures, people with a present, conscious awareness of evolution > > were called soothsayers. Sometimes they are artists. Philosophers. > > > > I believe practicing open space is a very fine tool for any person, > > regardless of their level of awareness of conscious evolution, to develop > > the ability to BE aware of conscious evolution. > > > > I believe humanity is undergoing a big shift in consciousness and more and > > more people are aware of the shift. . . we hear it creaking and cracking > > like the ice breaking up in anticipation of spring. I hear it often in > open > > space. > > > > > > >From: Artur Silva <arturfsi...@yahoo.com> > > >Reply-To: OSLIST <osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu> > > >To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu > > >Subject: Re: Is there a need to hold space for people to ask the > > question, "what' > > >Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 09:02:09 -0700 > > > > > >Doug > > > > > >--- "Douglas D. Germann, Sr." > > ><76066....@compuserve.com> wrote: > > > > Artur-- > > > > > > > > Thanks for your wonder! > > > > > > > > What do you mean by "Evolution... is never conscient > > > > to the species that > > > > follow ... it"? > > > > > > > > Teilhard seems to me to hold that evolution has > > > > become conscious of itself > > > > in humanity. We are therefore life reflecting on > > > > itself. Do you agree? > > > > > >My reading of Theilhard de Chardin was many-many years > > >ago and it was not very profound. So, speaking only > > >for myself, I think that humanity is conscious of > > >evolution as a fact of the past. I don't think it is > > >conscious of it has it happens - or would be > > >conscious if it happened... > > > > > >Artur > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >__________________________________ > > >Do you Yahoo!? > > >Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign! > > >http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/ > > > > > >* > > >* > > >========================================================== > > >osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu > > >------------------------------ > > >To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > > >view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: > > >http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > > > > >To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > > >http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® > > Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > > > * > > * > > ========================================================== > > osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu > > ------------------------------ > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > > view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: > > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist > > > > * > * > ========================================================== > osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu > ------------------------------ > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, > view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: > http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html > > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: > http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist * * ========================================================== osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist