Thanks for your response, Kaliya. With apologies to others on this list, I will make one more attempt to clarify: my email response to you was not about Michael. This is not about Michael. Nor is it about whether or not to use NVC on this list-serv, although I have found it to be a valuable resource. This is about my experience of your communication and a simple request that you refrain from engaging in personal attacks when you communicate here.
I welcome direct and frank conversations. What I do not welcome is blaming, name-calling, and yelling, and I don't want to be part of a community that condones these kinds of tactics. Quite simply, I believe that one can have direct and frank conversation without blaming, name-calling, or yelling. One can discover truth without sacrificing respect. Best of luck to you in your efforts to create the kind of web presence you want. Sincerely, Karen <http://www.luminacoaching.com/> <http://www.luminacoaching.com/> lumina fr. L. light, air, opening... Karen Sella Coaching: <http://www.luminacoaching.com> www.luminacoaching.com Consulting: <http://www.integralventures.com> www.integralventures.com Phone: 1.206.780.2998 Skype: karensella The information contained in this message may be privileged, confidential and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you think that you have received this message in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete the message and any attachments. _____ From: OSLIST [mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu] On Behalf Of Kaliya * Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 7:28 PM To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu Subject: Re: [OSLIST] re honouring each other Thanks for the NVC tip Karen :) . I in fact worked at BayNVC in 2002 and I am very familiar with it as yet another method in the tool box for engaging in dialogue. It is particularly valuable in the face to face - interpersonal. I am not sure "expressing my needs" in that NVC way would really have gotten us to where we are in this dialogue. It would have come across as passive and helpless. It also doesn't work online in large group dialogue. I am very sorry you feel uncofortable with direct and frank talk about the nature of how several of us have experienced Micheal's management style of what was supposedly "THE worldwide home of Open Space Technology" It was only through the intensity of the dialogue and holding on to truth and calling a spade a spade that he actually got clear with everyone that it was "HIS site". Someone said to me you know this is the first time he has ever said it was "his" site. Truthful clarity came forward. Tree Fitzpatrick is the only person who spoke up and shared her personal experiences in trying to deal with Michael's supposed openness. Others have shared their experiences but choose not to do so publically. The thing that struck me about the dialogue with Micheal was that he used "open spaceisms" to be defensive and not answer me directly. This was a behavior that I first experienced in the NVC community (by staff people I worked with at BayNFC) where people would start "NVCing" you when they disagreed and mask a whole power trip they were playing. Tools and models are just that - NVC is a tool appropriate for some places but not applicable or useful everywhere, Open Space is a tool but not appropriate or applicable everwhere or in every mode of human organization. Regards, -Kaliya On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 7:04 PM, Karen Sella <ka...@luminacoaching.com> wrote: Hi Kaliya, I agree that this conversation has been useful in helping you organize your efforts around more truth, and I'm delighted that you are taking responsibility for your passion in and for this community. I appreciate your desire to offer more alternatives and educate those of us with less technical prowess about the various options. However, when you make disparaging remarks about Michael (or anyone) and his website, I feel disrespected as a member of this community. When you characterize a member of our community as a "dominating" "dictator" who's "blocking progress" and being dishonest-not "coming clean"-I distrust both your motives and your capacity for civil discourse. When you frame his website as a "dysfunctional default" that is somehow less than the "new and better real home" for this community that your efforts will provide, I feel sad that in your efforts to build something new, you neglect to express more appreciation for what is and what has been. These comments seem unnecessarily dismissive and partial, and undermine my desire to receive your potentially valuable contribution. However, being open-minded, I followed the link in your invitation, and upon arriving there was disappointed to find more negative commentary about Michael and his website amidst more productive suggestions about possible options. I am sorry that you feel uncomfortable. You have not been a part of m While various professions do indeed have different "normative conflict levels," and there are those in all professions who could be described as "conflict-averse," I suspect that much discomfort here has less to do with normative conflict levels than differing norms about how to deal with conflict. As my messages to date must demonstrate, I am not conflict-averse, but I am averse to personal attacks. Blaming, name-calling and yelling make me uncomfortable. Unless one happens to be shouting for joy, shouting actually makes it more difficult for me to hear and listen. In my experience, these kinds of tactics, which we all are guilty of engaging in from time to time, close rather than open space. I understand from what you have shared that you are really attempting to open space and improve this community's online experience. I can imagine how frustrating it must be to have a clear vision of what you want and feel unheard or thwarted in your attempts to garner the support to make it happen, and you are, of course, entitled to share your opinions as you choose. However, I would be more comfortable and more receptive to your efforts if you could share your perspective without engaging in these kinds of tactics. I think someone else mentioned Marshall Rosenberg's, Nonviolent Communication <http://www.amazon.com/Nonviolent-Communication-Language-Marshall-Rosenberg/ dp/1892005034/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1258675009&sr=8-1> , which if you have not already discovered it, is a great resource for learning constructive approaches to communication congruent with the norms of this list-serv. Sincerely, Karen <http://www.luminacoaching.com/> <http://www.luminacoaching.com/> lumina fr. L. light, air, opening... Karen Sella Coaching: <http://www.luminacoaching.com> www.luminacoaching.com Consulting: <http://www.integralventures.com> www.integralventures.com Phone: 1.206.780.2998 Skype: karensella The information contained in this message may be privileged, confidential and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you think that you have received this message in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete the message and any attachments. _____ From: OSLIST [mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu] On Behalf Of Kaliya * Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:49 PM To: osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu Subject: Re: [OSLIST] re honouring each other On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 5:43 PM, Chris Corrigan <chris.corri...@gmail.com> wrote: I'm a little late to this conversation but I'd like to add my two cents. Thank you to all who hold space for the various ways that we are able to connect our work to people that need it. And thank you to Michael for the tireless work he does on the openspace world website. No one controls the number one spot in Google. It's all about how many people link to you. If you have quality stuff and people link to it you'll go higher in the rankings. I have no doubt that the ning site has all the potential to be number one and that would be great. But let's be clear that there is no way to conspire to keep others out of the top spots. These strange personal attacks on the list do nothing to advance the community's work. It is highly out of character for this community to engage like this. I know everyone involved in this dispute personally and I am having a hard time ascribing motives or squaring what I am reading with what i know of these people personally. We can all be prickly at times but is this a fight that is necessary to have? Yes. It got some things out in the open and on the table. Clarity about who owns and controls what and how they "really" want to manage/hold things on behalf of the community. Now that things are clearer we have more options - more openness - rather then being stuck in what was a dysfunctional default (the way it always was). I realized in working with a journalism focused group that the tech industry has a "higher normative conflict level" then many other professional fields. The primary community that I facilitate open space for in that world - the Internet Identity Workshop - http://www.internetidentityworkshop.com is going into it's 10th meeting this coming May. The largest tech companies on the web are all in there and all in sort of ongoing "perma-conflict" re how things will evolve and they all love each other and cooperate with each other. I am sorry if this dialogue has made those of you who as facilitators are conflict averse feel "uncomfortable" but it is through naming and challenging and getting clarity about what people really mean and what their intentions are that we can move forward. -Kaliya With gratitude for passion bounded by responsibility. Chris ----- CHRIS CORRIGAN http://www.chriscorrigan.com Sent from an iPod, typed with thumbs... On 2009-11-18, at 3:18, Tree Fitzpatrick <therese.fitzpatr...@gmail.com> wrote: For what it is worth, I experience Kaliya's comments as powerful, even courageous efforts to open space. For what it is worth, I experience Michael's comments as name-calling, denigrating, invalidating, dishonoring. I find myself wishing he would make less attack statements and more 'I' statements, telling us what he thinks and feels without attacking others shared thoughts and feelings. On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Karen Sella < <mailto:ka...@luminacoaching.com> ka...@luminacoaching.com> wrote: For what it's worth, I experienced all the comments from Michael and others as adding useful perspectives to the conversation--not invalidating or dishonoring... just sharing yet another perspective. Warmly, Karen Karen Sella Coaching: <http://www.luminacoaching.com> www.luminacoaching.com Consulting: <http://www.integralventures.com> www.integralventures.com Blog: <http://www.lumina.typepad.com> www.lumina.typepad.com Phone: 1.206.780.2998 Skype: karensella lumina fr. L. light, air, opening... The information contained in this message may be privileged, confidential and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you think that you have received this message in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete the message and any attachments. -----Original Message----- From: OSLIST [mailto: <mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu> osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu] On Behalf Of Kathie Wallace Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:10 AM To: <mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu> osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu Subject: [OSLIST] re honouring each other Hi Everyone, I have been following this community for a while and will soon start sharing info. Many thanks for all the enlivening info. I am grateful. I feel the need to speak in response to Michael's comments re Kaliya's thoughts. OST is about staying open and positive and welcoming of all perspectives and ideas, as I experience it. Critiquing and judging and saying "no" to ideas stops the new, constantly self-emerging outflowing of ideas that is creating a continual shared meaning among us all that excites me to no end. All of Kaliya's ideas are valid. Michael, may I suggest you own your own ideas more powerfully by using phrases like "in my opinion" or using the pronoun "I" rather than "you" when you share your own ideas. ...and on with the OST dance, Sincerely, Kathie Wallace Vancouver, BC, Canada * * ========================================================== <mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu> osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of <mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu> osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: <http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: <http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist * * ========================================================== <mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu> osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of <mailto:osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu> osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: <http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: <http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist -- Love rays, Tree Fitzpatrick (check out my new address) . . . the great and incalculable grace of love, which says, with Augustine, "I want you to be," without being able to give any particular reason for such supreme and unsurpassable affirmation. -- Hannah Arendt 2175 Kittredge St Apt 615 Berkeley, CA 94704 510-665-4825 * * ========================================================== osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist * * ========================================================== osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist * * ========================================================== osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist * * ========================================================== osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist * * ========================================================== osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist * * ========================================================== osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of osl...@listserv.boisestate.edu: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist