Re: [OSList] The Tyranny of Structurelessness

[Daniel Mezick via OSList]

Yo Michael,

The whole "story-context-is-missing" thing is really just a sidebar to 
the important (and much wider) issues around authority.

These authority-issues are raised by the subject essay, "The Tyranny of 
Structurelessness." What a great essay!

Story-context is a really, really important topic though, especially if 
"missing-context" does have at least the potential to evoke feelings of 
exclusion, in at least some members of the list.

Regarding some of the things you are saying:

You say, "Exclusion is the illusion. A little bit of errant and 
temporary mental structure."

I say, my current belief is that my feelings are not illusion 
whatsoever, nor are they error. Rather they are real and valid, human 
emotions. They are emotions which, when experienced fully, are in fact 
an essential aspect of living well.


You say, "...I notice the word tyranny again in the subject. Is it not 
some kind of tyranny we all attempt over and over again when we expect 
and insist that the world explain itself to/for us?"

I say, my current belief is that inquiry is not simply important, it is 
in fact essential. Inquiry is good.



In any event, and as always, I do appreciate your feedback.



I am now keen to get back to the main topic !

I wonder how we might, in the here and now, go about defining the term 
"structure," for purposes of further discussing issues raised by this 
essay with much more clarity.

That's a question I'm keen to explore with you, and the other members of 
this list, inside this thread.



Regards,
Daniel
http://www.Prime-OS.com



On 10/6/15 11:56 AM, Michael Herman wrote:
Yes and Daniel, there are the words of a story and the feeling/meaning 
of it. I considered writing a longer message in the telling of this 
story, but I wanted to transmit as much of the spirit/experience of it 
as I could.

Ralph didn't offer any explanation of his observation that morning. He 
did just like I said, got up in a morning news circle, it was an 
OTgathering as I noted but that doesn't matter, it was open space and 
morning news. He said his piece and sat down. The experience for me, 
and others I have learned only later, was stunning and disorienting, 
for sure.

I thought to honor and convey this experience through some measure of 
similar brevity in my retelling. Maybe this is what you picked up on. 
The disorienting magic of Ralph's moment.

There are moments in open space of surprise and disconnect, maybe 
frustration or confusion or misunderstanding or disorientation and 
even disappointment that arise in open space. This we all know and 
have experienced. This, to me, is not so much a thing to be solved but 
the nature of the territory. It just is.

Ralph never did explain his statement, as far as I know. He had 
something to say and he said it. That was his only job. After that, 
each of us had to figure out for ourselves what, if anything, to do 
with his story, to decide if it was wisdom or wisecrack. The 
storyteller, I think, has only the responsibility for finding and 
sharing what's true for him/her.  The rest is up to us.

Maybe this points to the learning and challenge that we all have in 
open space, namely learning to trust more and more that we already are 
always included in a flow that is bigger and deeper or whatever than 
we can see or understand or articulate sometimes. Exclusion is the 
illusion. A little bit of errant and temporary mental structure. 
Discomfort is not a problem (and can't be solved by anyone!); it's a 
trail marker.  Which is to say about exclusion and missing out, 
"welcome!"  The good news is, and the bad news is, you're in!  And, 
it's all still happening Now.

As I scroll up to send tha now, I notice the word tyranny again in the 
subject. Is it not some kind of tyranny we all attempt over and over 
again when we expect and insist that the world explain itself to/for 
us?  Is this not something of our central challenge, something all of 
us work with?  The edge of open space is an end of comfortable, 
conventional understanding?  Or something?










On Tuesday, October 6, 2015, Daniel Mezick via OSList 
<oslist@lists.openspacetech.org 
<mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>> wrote:

    Hi Harrison,

    Thanks for the tips on how to search OSLIST and Google, etc. I did
    do those things actually. However, that's a bit of an effort,
    especially searching the OSLIST archives. I guess I could
    eventually pick up OSLIST culture that way, little by little. I
    suppose an earnest person with loads of time could sift through
    OSLIST archives to figure this culture out. The hard way.

    However, like the SPIRIT book teaches, there is nothing like a
    good story to convey culture. The kind of story with a beginning,
    a middle and an end.

    I notice that, when you are the one referring to a certain
    OS-mythos story, you usually tend to include the short list of
    pertinent details, the essential details that provide the
    essential context, so the reader can follow along, and engage.

    And I'm always grateful for that, as it helps me to follow along,
    and get what you are referring to, and more fully understand the
    story, and feel oddly included in the story.


    Earlier, I express how not having the context tends to (for me)
    arouse feelings of: exclusion, cluelessness, and a general lack of
    membership in whatever "historic-OS-mythos-episode" is being
    referred to. Sort of an "out group" feeling. You know? Sometimes,
    I wonder what the poster might be thinking by posting random
    fragments of a "you had to be there" kind of story. Other times, I
    wonder if other readers are also feeling these feelings. Or if it
    is "just me."

    And so: I am very grateful for your stories, in part because you
    include the pertinent details, and in so doing, make me (for one)
    feel included.

    So thanks for including the context in your stories. It makes them
    fun, and easy to follow. OSLIST culture certainly has it's quirks,
    and for me, your stories make this culture easier to figure out,
    and navigate, and enjoy.


    Getting back to the Tyranny of Structurelessness:

    Do you think these 3 assertions by the author are actually true?
    Do these ideas have legs?

      * /This hegemony can be so easily established because the idea
        of "structurelessness" does not prevent the formation of
        informal structures, only formal ones./
      * /For everyone to have the opportunity to be involved in a
        given group and to participate in its activities, the
        structure must be explicit, not implicit. /
      * /It is this informal structure, particularly in Unstructured
        groups, which forms the basis for elites./


    Daniel

    On 10/6/15 10:04 AM, Harrison Owen wrote:

    Dan, Google can often help. https://www.google.com/#q=ralph+copleman

    ho

    *From:*OSList [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org
    <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org');>]
    *On Behalf Of *Daniel Mezick via OSList
    *Sent:* Monday, October 05, 2015 4:51 PM
    *To:* Harrison Owen; World wide Open Space Technology email list
    *Subject:* Re: [OSList] The Tyranny of Structurelessness

    Howdy Harrison,

    Thanks for describing the context of the Ralph Copleman story-
    I'm very thankful for that info.

    I notice that, lots of times here, there are references made to
    notable OST episodes, and situations from times past...

    ...the "OST-mythos" as it were.

    These mythical stories often have me wondering what I missed, and
    what I might now be missing. (Being clueless as I am.)

    I'm sure these story-fragment postings are not posted with intent
    to exclude anyone, or to be discourteous, or unkind. More like:
    some good old basic camaraderie is taking place between some old
    friends.

    Still: Do these "inside-story-fragments" on OSLIST tend to evoke
    feelings of exclusion in readers who were /not/ there at the time?

    Not sure.

    <CONFESSION>

    As for me, personally, I sometimes find myself experiencing
    curiously odd feelings of exclusion, when a told-fragment of an
    old OST-mythos story lacks explicit context. So I can follow the
    story, you know? The terms "outsider" or "clueless" or  "not in
    the story" describe these feelings fairly well. "Not invited?"

    I sometimes wonder if some of the hundreds of /other/ members of
    OSLIST ever feel this way...or if it is "just me."

    </CONFESSION>

    Daniel



    On 10/4/15 2:59 PM, Harrison Owen via OSList wrote:

        “Everythingis moving.†  .... Michael -- I remember that
        moment verywell. And Dan, I’m not sure the context, etc,
        would helpvery much. But just for the record the odd phrase
        popped out at one of the International Symposia on
        Organization Transformation which happened to be taking place
        at a small college south of Seattle. I have no idea why Ralph
        said what he did, and I’m not sure Ralph did either. But
        then againa lot of marvelous stuff seems to burst out with no
        obvious logic train. Indeed it may be that the lack of logic
        train enables the thought?

        Â

        Whatever the genesis, the phrase wandered about my head for
        some time, quite unattached, and it also happened that I was
        working my way slowly through one of the masterpieces of
        20^th century western philosophy when a fuzzy connection
        began to form. The work was that of Alfred North Whitehead,
        and the title: “Process and Reality.†I’ve been through
        thebook probably 4-5 times, and I am frank to confess that I
        don’t think I really understandit. But then again
        I’veheard  a number of people with much greater
        credentials, tenure, etc – say the same thing. But I did
        get that ithad something to do with, “Everything is
        moving.†Andthe more I thought and read, the more I felt
        that the good philosopher had made a small mistake on his
        title. It shouldn’t be “Process/and/ Reality,†but
        rather“Process*is* Reality.â€

        Â

        Now, Anna Caroline we come to “structure,†or perhaps
        Ishould say the fallacy of Structure? Yes I know – we’ve
        all been taught that structure is the precursor, the
        “determinator†of everything. My face looks as it
        doesbecause of my bone structure. My life proceeds the way it
        does because of my social structure. My business works as it
        does because of the organizational structure. And of course,
        meetings happen the way they do because of meeting structure,
        which apparently is the prime domain of “facilitators.â€
        And even if we hadn’t been“taught†all this, the primacy
        of structure would appearto be blatantly obvious – as plain
        as the nose on yourface.

        Â

        Unfortunately, it does seem to turn out that sometimes the
        blatantly obvious is not necessarily so. For example just
        looking at things it is pretty clear that the world is flat,
        or at the least bumpy flat. And any fool can see that we are
        the center of it all – Sun, moon, and stars whiz around
        us. But when we think about it, as we have been doing for
        the last 500-600 years, the obvious isn’t so obvious.

        Â

        It is reasonable to ask what would start to make us think
        differently – to the point that we begin to question
        theobvious, and even come to see things in a different way?
        Taking a leap, I will suggest that it all begins with the
        perception of anomaly. Things just don’t make sense. Our
        eyes tell us one thing... but???? And then we start making up
        stories to explain the apparently unexplainable. We imagine
        different ways of looking at things so that the nonsensical
        makes sense. Some of those stories get pretty strange, but if
        they actually work – that is to say, helpus to see in new
        and useful ways – that’s great!

        Â

        There is, of course, a proper term for the activity I have
        been describing. It is called Theory Building. And for
        whatever it is worth, “theory†comes from the Greek
        “/theoreinâ//€ /– to see. In a word, theories are ways of
        looking atthings – likely stories you might say.

        Â

        Now, at long last (too long?) we come to the odd story I was
        starting to tell, to the effect that Structure is only a
        figment of our imagination, a flash frame of a moment gone
        by. Interesting, and helpful under some circumstances... but
        always partial and in a sense illusory. What’s“reallyâ€
        happening is all flow. Everything is moving –That’s
        Ralph’s story, and I guess it is mine too.

        Â

        So how did I get to such a weird condition? It was all about
        anomaly – more particularly, the anomaly of Open
        Space.Everything that I had ever learned told me that it
        could not work. Unfortunately it did (work) – and not just
        once, butevery time, hundreds of thousands of times.
        Something was definitely weird. It seemed to me that I had to
        re-consider all those things I thought I had learned,
        beginning with the basics... such things as Structure.

        Â

        Common sense would say that Open Space works because we
        somehow created a structure that enabled it to work. That’s
        theway things get done, or so I had been taught. But
        that’snot the way things happened in Open Space. Structure
        emerged along the way and only momentarily. Worse yet it
        (structure) seemed to have little to do with the obvious
        power, connections, creativity.... all of which created
        structures, and passed them by. And actually it always seemed
        to me that the “structures†I “saw†existed only
        because Iwanted to see them – or perhaps that I “shouldâ€
        seethem. But they were only momentary wisps, figments –
        neverto be mistaken for what was really going on. Or so
        I’vebeen thinking.

        Â

        Harrison

        Â

        Â

        Â

        Â

        Â

        Â

        *From:*OSList [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org
        
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org');>]
        *On Behalf Of *Michael Herman via OSList
        *Sent:* Saturday, October 03, 2015 6:31 PM
        *To:* JL Walker; World wide Open Space Technology email list
        *Subject:* Re: [OSList] The Tyranny of Structurelessness

        Â

        you remind me, harrison, of one morning news session years
        ago, somewhere, probably OT... where ralph copleman walked to
        the center of the circle and announced, all serious and
        mischievous at the same time, "it's all moving!" Â

        Â

        then put the stick down and went back to his seat.Â


        Â
        --

        Michael Herman
        Michael Herman Associates
        http://MichaelHerman.com
        http://OpenSpaceWorld.org

        Â

        On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 1:47 PM, JL Walker via OSList
        <oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
        <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','oslist@lists.openspacetech.org');>>
        wrote:

        I was thinking that maybe the antidote to the eventual
        tyranny of structurelessness is to open space, again and
        again, until true democracy can emerge.

        Â

        Juan Luis

        Â

        *De:*OSList [mailto:oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org
        
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org');>]
        *En nombre de *Rosa Zubizarreta via OSList
        *Enviado el:* sábado, 03 de octubre de 2015 12:19
        *Para:* Daniel Mezick; World wide Open Space Technology email
        list
        *Asunto:* Re: [OSList] The Tyranny of Structurelessness

        Â

        Hi Daniel,

        Yes, this is a key piece... I see it as very similar in some
        ways to what Ken Wilber wrote later,

        about the "shadow side of the green meme". (Each meme has its
        own shadow, as well as its own gift...)

        So, I love "green". I love circles, I love non-hierarchy, etc.
        And, part of the "shadow side of the green meme" is how
        ideologically anti-structure it can become...

        to the point where some people may not even agree that OST
        does, in fact, offer a very simple and effective structure.

        By way contrast, think of a situation where group of people
        (who don't know about OST, and/or, who are having a power
        struggle around "which process to use", and/or.... ) might
        easily spending a whole weekend arguing /about /"how to
        self-organize ourselves"... with a great deal more pain and
        frustration and a great deal less value.

        whereas, instead, IF someone knows about OST, and, a clear
        invitation has been extended, and, there is enough
        trust/suspension of disbelief so that participants are
        willing to enter into that format,

        then, we end up with a very simple and elegant structure that
        allows people to self-organize beautifully....

        at least that's how i see it! :-)

        with all best wishes,

        Rosa

        Â


        */Rosa Zubizarreta/*

        /Developing Participatory and Co-intelligent Leadership
        Author of *From Conflict to Creative Collaboration*
        <http://www.conflict2creativity.com>/

        /For more resources and learning opportunities, visit
        *www.DiaPraxis.com <http://www.DiaPraxis.com>*/

        Â

        On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 9:26 AM, Daniel Mezick via OSList
        <oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
        <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','oslist@lists.openspacetech.org');>>
        wrote:

        THE TYRANNY of STRUCTURELESSNESS
        by Jo Freeman aka Joreen

        I find this essay extremely interesting. I hope you do, too.



        Here is a pertinent quote, from the essay:
        ".../the idea of "structurelessness" does not prevent the
        formation of informal structures, only formal ones."

        /
        Circa 1970. Context: the women's movement. Quick summary of
        the main points: from the essay...

        ï‚·/During the years in which the women's liberation movement
        has been taking shape, a great emphasis has been placed on
        what are called leaderless, structureless groups as the main
        -- if not sole -- organizational form of the movement. /

        ï‚·/The idea of "structurelessness," however, has moved from
        a healthy counter to those tendencies, to becoming a goddess
        in its own right./

        ï‚·/Contrary to what we would like to believe, there is no
        such thing as a structureless group. /

        ï‚·/This means that to strive for a structureless group is as
        useful, and as deceptive, as to aim at an "objective" news
        story, "value-free" social science, or a "free" economy. A
        "laissez faire" group is about as realistic as a "laissez
        faire" society; the idea becomes a smokescreen for the strong
        or the lucky to establish unquestioned hegemony over others. /

        ï‚·/This hegemony can be so easily established because the
        idea of "structurelessness" does not prevent the formation of
        informal structures, only formal ones. /

        ï‚·/For everyone to have the opportunity to be involved in a
        given group and to participate in its activities, the
        structure must be explicit, not implicit. /

        ï‚·/It is this informal structure, particularly in
        Unstructured groups, which forms the basis for elites./



        Just in case you have not yet encountered the full text of
        this essay, here it is:

        THE TYRANNY of STRUCTURELESSNESS
        by Jo Freeman aka Joreen
        http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm



        Regards,
        Daniel
        http://www.OpenSpaceAgility.com/about
        http://www.DanielMezick.com
        203 915 7248 <tel:203%20915%207248>


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    -- 

    Daniel Mezick, President

    New Technology Solutions Inc.

    (203) 915 7248 (cell)

    Bio <http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/>. Blog
    <http://newtechusa.net/blog/>. Twitter
    <http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/>.

    Examine my new book:The Culture Game
    <http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/>: Tools for
    the Agile Manager.

    Explore Agile Team Training
    <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/> and
    Coaching. <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-coaching/>

    Explore the Agile Boston
    <http://newtechusa.net//user-groups/ma/>Community.



--

--

Michael Herman
Michael Herman Associates
http://MichaelHerman.com
http://OpenSpaceWorld.org



--

Daniel Mezick, President

New Technology Solutions Inc.

(203) 915 7248 (cell)

Bio <http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/>. Blog 
<http://newtechusa.net/blog/>. Twitter <http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/>.

Examine my new book:The Culture Game 
<http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/>: Tools for the 
Agile Manager.

Explore Agile Team Training 
<http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/> and Coaching. 
<http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-coaching/>

Explore the Agile Boston <http://newtechusa.net//user-groups/ma/>Community.

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