Joan your are speaking of using procedural memories. They remember these tasks as part of past occupational involvement and can at times participate at some level. It may not be a true occupation, as it is not in the context of completing some occupational demand, but is a component of an occupation. I do not believe in any way that sorting silverware in the context you mentioned can be compared to sorting pegs or stacking cones. As someone mentioned earlier, at the least the task is a purposeful activity. Jim
Joan Riches <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I am talking about advanced dementia Ron. These people are deprived of occupation. Handling and manipulating things they recognise often provides a sense of accomplishment especially when their efforts are recognised and appreciated. Your final statement is quite true when people are able to compare present and past abilities. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Carson Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 5:10 PM To: Joan Riches Subject: Re: [OTlist] Sorting Silverware? Joan, interesting answer, as always. I don't understand the following: JR>Sorry. [ Enabling ]occupation in this setting is providing support for the satisfaction JR> of doing which may be possible only at the level of actions. Also, I'm not sure that I fully accept this statement: JR> For many women, cooks, waiters, butlers and footmen the memories and JR> sense of accomplishment even in a simulated task will be far greater JR> than using cones. Even though a person previously engaged in an occupation, that is no assurance that the person will derive any sense of accomplishment from TRYING the same occupation. In fact, I OFTEN find just the opposite. Many times, people are unwilling to learn a new way of doing what was once a familiar occupation. Interesting topics! Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: Joan Riches Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 To: OTlist@OTnow.com Subj: [OTlist] Sorting Silverware? JR> Hi Ron JR> One of the Toglia assessments involves sorting cutlery (As a jewellers JR> daughter I question whether the utensils in question were actually silver) JR> Also one of the renewable activities that we provide for low level dementia JR> folk involves sorting plastic cutlery. This activity can be graded up or JR> down and is available when needed. I know there is some debate about using JR> simulated rather than active productive meaningful tasks. I know that these JR> familiar tasks sorting, folding etc. are meaningful for many of our JR> residents. The skill involved is in matching the task to the person, JR> prescribing both task and supervision and following up to monitor changes in JR> cognition. Occupation in this setting is providing support for the JR> satisfaction of doing which may be possible only at the level of actions. JR> I don't know why the person you saw was sorting cutlery and it may indeed be JR> just a step away from using cones. For many women, cooks, waiters, butlers JR> and footmen the memories and sense of accomplishment even in a simulated JR> task will be far greater than using cones. JR> Blessings, Joan JR> -----Original Message----- JR> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf JR> Of Ron Carson JR> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 1:58 PM JR> To: OTlist JR> Subject: [OTlist] Sorting Silverware? JR> Hello Everyone: JR> Will someone please tell me why OT would have a SNF (Skilled Nursing JR> Facility) standing and sorting silverware? Surely, no patient really has JR> a goal of sorting silverware, do they? JR> I've never understood this aspect of OT! Why have patients standing to JR> do something so that they can do something else? If the patient needs to JR> be able to stand and get their clothes, brush their teeth, walk to the JR> dining room, go pee, etc, etc, why not use these as the treatment? JR> Thanks, JR> Ron JR> -- JR> "... as a profession that offers unique services that are ideally suited JR> to meet the health, participation, and quality of life needs of people JR> of all ages, occupational therapy is well-positioned to succeed and JR> flourish in the 21st century." [Fred Somers, AJOT, April, 2005, p. 127] JR> "The part of convalescence that I found most profoundly humiliating and JR> depressing was [OT]... I was reduced to playing with brightly colored JR> plastic letters ... like a three-year-old..." [AJOT, April, 2005, p. JR> 231] JR> -- JR> Options? JR> www.otnow.com/mailman/options/otlist_otnow.com JR> Archive? JR> www.mail-archive.com/otlist@otnow.com JR> **************************************************************************** JR> ********** JR> Enroll in Boston University's post-professional Master of Science for OTs JR> Online. Gain the skills and credentials to propel your career. JR> www.otdegree.com/otn JR> **************************************************************************** JR> ********** JR> No virus found in this incoming message. JR> Checked by AVG Free Edition. JR> Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.13/998 - Release Date: 9/10/2007 JR> 8:48 AM JR> JR> No virus found in this outgoing message. JR> Checked by AVG Free Edition. JR> Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.13/998 - Release Date: 9/10/2007 JR> 8:48 AM JR> -- Options? www.otnow.com/mailman/options/otlist_otnow.com Archive? www.mail-archive.com/otlist@otnow.com **************************************************************************** ********** Enroll in Boston University's post-professional Master of Science for OTs Online. Gain the skills and credentials to propel your career. www.otdegree.com/otn **************************************************************************** ********** No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. 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