Hi Mark,
Mark Michelson, Oct 03, 2023 at 23:09:
Hi Robin,
Thanks a bunch for putting these two emails together. I've read through
them and the replies.
I think there's one major issue: a lack of data.
That's my concern as well... The problem is, it is very hard to get
reliable and actionable data when it comes to that level of scale.
I have been trying to collect such data and put together realistic
scenarios but failed until now.
I think the four bullet points you listed below are admirable goals. The
problem is that I think we're putting the cart before the horse with
both the issues and proposals.
In other words, before being able to properly evaluate these emails, we
need to see a scenario that
1) Has clear goals for what scalability metrics are desired.
2) Shows evidence that these scalability goals are not being met.
3) Shows evidence that one or more of the issues listed in this email
are the cause for the scalability issues in the scenario.
4) Shows evidence that the proposed changes would fix the scalability
issues in the scenario.
I hope that the ongoing work on ovn-heater will help in that regard.
I listed them in this order because without a failing scenario, we can't
claim the scalability is poor. Then if we have a failing scenario, it's
possible that the problem and solution is much simpler than any of the
issues or proposals that have been brought up here. Then, it's also
possible that maybe only a subset of the issues listed in this email are
contributing to the failure. Even if the issues identified here are
directly causing the scenario to fail, there may still be simpler
solutions than what has been proposed. And finally, it's possible that
the proposed solutions don't actually result in the expected scale increase.
I want to make sure my tone is coming across clearly here. I don't think
the current OVN architecture is perfect, and I don't want to be
dismissive of the issues you've raised. If there are changes we can make
to simplify OVN and scale better at the same time, I'm all for it. The
problem is that, as you pointed out in your proposal email, most of
these proposals result in difficulties for upgrades/downgrades, as well
as code maintenance. Therefore, if we are going to do any of these, we
need to first be certain that we aren't scaling as well as we would
like, and that there are not simpler paths to reach our scalability targets.
I get your point and this is specifically why I did split the
conversation in two. I did not want my proposals to be mixed up with
the issues.
I will see if I can get hard data that can demonstrate what I claim.
Thanks!
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