Well I have been a midwife for 17 years and in that time the number of breech births I have attended is minimal and they have all been medically managed. I bought a copy of Breech Birth Woman Wise and have read it and have used the chapter describing turning a breech on a number of occasions with good success. Ten days ago ( in my other job) I was at the birth of a woman who had an undiagnosed breech birth that we didn't discover until she ruptured her membranes and presented us with two lovely little feet. Well being a multi she just birthed it without to much fuss as it was all so quick. Causes a bit of a stir though and plenty of wise council from the side lines from experts who would have picked it up. Personally she was lucky that we didn't because there is no way she would have been allowed to labour and birth in her own way. Forward ten days and I was with a client who I had palped each antenatal visit. opposite build little and fit with a very tight abdo and on palp feet up under the ribs on the right. Last week spent some time playing with his toes as when I felt he pushed a foot out and I could try and grab it when he would pull it away. Anyway on palp I though it was cephalic. (Even palping after I knew it was breech I was unable to feel that head in a way that would convince me that it was so). SROM onset of labour 9 hours later, progressed more slowly that I expected but all the time progressing and managing well. Decided to move to hospital after 10 hours of contractions as this was where she had chosen to birth. Continued slowly and declined to have a VE. Urge to push after a further 8 hours and not long later on view but not the expected head but a very swollen and bruised scrotum. Of course the expected panic ensued and while it all went on around us I encouraged her to remain upright and continue to listen to her body. I have continued to write the rest of this but have now changed it because I can't do it without being judgmental of those who were there. It is not even negative judgment but just honest but they may not see it that way. Anyway she elected to take the offered choice of having a LUSCS at this late stage. On looking at the situation that we were in at this stage it was the right thing for them to do. What flashed through my mind at the time was (I think it was Michel Odent) saying that in the event of a fearful attendant, doctor or midwife then LUSCS is a better option than attempting a breech and I could see the faces and feel the atmosphere around us and it most definitely did have an affect on her progress at the time. Was I right to do this I'll never know but you never get to do the same birth twice but my gut feeling was that this was the right thing and so I went with it. I see my job know as helping her come to terms with it all and embracing it as her experience. After all this time I am still nervous about sharing stories on the list. You all know who -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.