Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this discussion on OP position during labour.  It has been very beneficial to me to share and debrief in this forum, and it will also be helpful when "N" is ready to discuss and debrief - down the track.  Cheers, Lois
 
  ----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 7:22 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] OP babies

Another great and very enjoyable thing women can do to help is raq shaqui (belly dance). And nothing beats some heavy (energetic) rocking and rolling late in the labour too!
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 12:07 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] OP babies

Robin, you have covered this matter very clearly and accurately, which saves me the trouble of trying to do it.  Optimal Fetal Positioning in pregnancy is a subject I cover with all my clients antenatally.  The case which this discussion arose from unfortunately demonstrates what can still happen.  This woman went to a lot of trouble to optimise her baby's position in the last month of pregnancy -- even forced herself to lie on her left side to sleep rather than back lying which she preferred.  Her baby was in a lateral position (ROL) on palp and VE throughout her labour (about 48 hours latent phase).  She utilised upright positioning and water throughout her labour and reached 8cm dilation with the presenting part at spines before the baby turned to OP and deflexed, and receded back to -1.  The obstetrician/surgeon made the statement that he "didn't believe the baby was ever in the pelvis" based on the little moulding of the head - but she was!  The woman has now been told (by the GP/ob who attended in theatre but never examined her physically) that she most definitely will need a CS for any subsequent births based on her long slow labour, and that the baby (7lb 2oz) did not fit through.  Maybe it's true.  Maybe it's not.  Only another labour will tell the story.  It's disheartening for her and for me, but the outcome is a live, healthy baby, and Mum is recovering extremely well.  She's a gutsy girl who will, I'm sure, research her options well if and when she travels the birthjourney again.  Best wishes, Lois
      
----- Original Message -----
From: Robin Moon
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] OP babies

 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 9:03 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] OP babies

I have a question that will probably be seen as a silly one to some (but remember I am a consumer so it is my right to ask silly questions!)  If one of the main reasons for cs is failure to progress and fetal malpresentation AND a common factor with both these 'reasons' is a baby that is persistently in OP ... why doesn't anyone do anything to correct this before labour? 
 
Jo, there was a large research study conducted in Sydney recently on OP positions. It concentrated on ante-natal exercises to see if they could 'move' babies into a more optimal position prior to labour. The results were a dismal failure........
 
 I know a large portion of bubs are OP then turn during labour; but it seems like we have found that it is easier to deal with it by cs or forceps rotation...why is it we don't try to avoid the situation altogether?
 
Usually we need to wait to see if the force of the contractions and the shape of the woman's pelvis will help the baby to rotate. That's what we're looking for prior to c/s or forceps. To give the woman's body every chance.
 
Very few women I have encountered were even aware of the term OP or what the whole OP presentation involves (longer labours more interventions etc). Why do we pregnant mums not get told during ante-natal check ups what position bubs in?  Why doesn't anyone check when labour commences? 
 
On your antenatal card there is spot for 'presentation'. Usually it has hieroglyphics for the lay person in it in the form of  'OA'. or ÓT' or 'OP" ( or LOA, LOT,LOP, ROA, ROT,ROP). That is the position of the baby. Most practitioners start documenting it from about 30 weeks. 
 
A competent midwife/doctor will always check the position of the baby when labour commences ( unless you come in very late in the labour and it's all too difficult!). We need it to tell us lots of things. Suggested length of labour, readiness of the baby, potential problems.
 
I am aware of the optimal presentation booklet and now try to encourage all women I come across to be aware of their posture and to try swimming and sitting in positions as well as vertical positioning during labour that will encourage bub to be OA ....but this is AFTER I had a cs for failure to progress (8cm and stalled for 2 hours no fetal distress- due to having a monitor on and being made to be supine...no wonder bub did not turn himself!)
 
Good for you, keep trying, it's better than doing nothing, and many midwives are able to offer other practical ways of turning babies that are sometimes helpfulAnd I agree wholeheartedly, flat on your back is the worst position to labour effectively in. :-(
 
Remember this, the shape of a woman's pelvis will influence her labour. a VERY rough triangle shape where the pubic bone is at the apex, will allow the baby to rotate to the anterior nicely. If she is shaped more like a man where the pelvis is more oval shaped the baby will not rotate anteriorly too easily.
 
I am curious why this seems to be something that is ignored by mainstream but something that plays a major role in how birth results as cs or ivd??
can anyone shed some light?? 
 
I hope I've been able to help you a little. I'm getting a little rusty now and others may have other ideas to contribute I'm sure.
 
Cheers,
Robin.
 
Jo Bainbridge
founding member CARES SA
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
phone: 08 8388 6918
birth with trust, faith & love...

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