Pinky Thank you for this I it made me chuckle denise ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pinky McKay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 5:22 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep
> Hi Barb, > Thanks, Ive just accepted the other offers for PP -what a scream! - an > interview of breastfed kids - I might do that for a natural parenting > mag -will check out some of the more avant guard mainstreamers too (Junior > magazine have asked if I would like to write for them - > www.juniormagazine.co.uk -they've had some controversial/ unusual > articles ) - My daughter Larissa (now almost 23 and almost a psychologist) > was around 51/2 when she tried to have a "booby " to help ease the pain of > an ear infection (she hadnt nursed for a few weeks -Sarah -then 2 was still > nursing as well so there was plenty of milk) . As she tried to "nibble" she > looked up matter-of- factly and said "I think I've lost my sucking > reflex" -that was her 'weaning'. She would be a great "expert". > > Now that is food for thought! > > Pinky > ----- Original Message ----- > From: " barbara glare & chris bright" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 6:45 AM > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep > > > > Dear Pinky, > > > > I'm still breastfeeding Cassie who is 5 and a half. You could interview > > her! She speaks quite eloquently about breastfeeding and breastmilk. I > > could easily set you up with a few longer term breastfeeders for > interviews, > > and have some great photos of toddlers breastfeeding. > > > > Love, Barb > > ABAPoster and Calendar orders [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Neretlis, Bethany" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 11:08 PM > > Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep > > > > > > pinky, i have fed both my girls for 2 years each. unfortunately, i ceased > > feeding 10 months ago. > > i am also a midwife. if there is any way i can help you with any > > breastfeeding articles, please leet me know. > > bethany > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Pinky McKay [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Tuesday, 24 June 2003 19:51 > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep > > > > > > Yeah - how about "Extending the Breast" -reckon they'd cop that? (Im sure > > there has to be an "angle" -??soft and round - squished between grasping > > little fingers?) > > > > Any current long term breastfeeders (with a nursing toddler 1 to 2 years > old > > right now) willing to be interviewed? > > Ill check with Mara (the ed) -I bet they havent done one about THAT in the > > recent (or distant) past. > > Pinky. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Cheryl LHK" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 5:38 PM > > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep > > > > > > > And Pinky ... you do a great job in your little bit in the mag. > > > > > > Having been a subscriber for several years now, it both informs and > > astounds > > > me some of the articles that are written. We are getting back to some > > > common-sense mothering with your advice. > > > > > > They have (for years) been running a pregnancy diary where they follow > > > through three different women from conception to birth; several ladies > > over > > > the years have wanted home birth, but not many have been sucessful. I > > think > > > the last one ended up FTP and C/S. > > > > > > Keep up the good writing, are you doing one on the benefits of > > > breast-feeding soon?? > > > > > > Cheryl > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Pinky McKay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep > > > >Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:28:19 +1000 > > > > > > > >BTW -= my column in the current issue(June) of Practical Parenting is I > > > >Failed Sleep School -and the one just about to come out (July) is > called > > > >"Joined at The Hip" -about Velcro babies and why carrying is good for > > > >babies. August is co-sleeping. I only get 500 words so its a tame > > approach > > > >(or I mightnt get it past) but the seeds are sown. > > > > > > > >The July issue (due out next week, I think) has an article about 3 > breech > > > >births that WERENT caesarean -and also an article about episiotomies > that > > I > > > >havent read yet -may be worth some letters to the ed on these ones. > > > >Pinky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Jaqueline Marwick > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 12:53 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep > > > > > > > > > > > > I must agree with Pinky as well > > > > And I call it the CIO method, the old name which is really CRY IT > OUT. > > > >Now they call it "controlled crying" so it sounds a bit less cruel. > This > > is > > > >in fact the old CRY IT OUT method, which means parents are told to let > > > >their babies cry , cry, cry until there are no more tears and so they > > sleep > > > >very tired from a very stressful cry, and probably thinking it makes no > > > >difference to cry or not, since mum and dad won't come to comfort them > > > >anyway. Sad. > > > > I went to this website (sleep baby sleep) and looked on their forum, > > and > > > >there it was: BINGO! Someone mentioned NGALA , an organisation in WA > > that > > > >promotes this CIO method for babies and also preaches that we should > cut > > > >the night feeds and even avoid eye contact with the baby during the > night > > > >(in case they wake up)amongst other pretty full on evil ways. Sad. > > > > And the worst thing is that these people have plenty of room in the > > > >media, I always hear them talking on the radio as "specialists" or > > "experts > > > >in sleep methods", "experts in parenting" > > > > And they do have an audience! > > > > May God have mercy on them! What sort of child-parent relationship > > are > > > >these people creating by establishing that pattern? > > > > Jackie > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Pinky McKay > > > > Sent: Monday, 23 June 2003 2:17 PM > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you are right Marilyn - did anyone see Saturdays Age -re > 25 > > > >year olds and the stress these women are under - career/ study etc -not > > at > > > >all about mothers, but add mothering, especially with unrealistic > > > >expectations, to this scenario and it would all be a slippery downhill > > > >slide. > > > > > > > > I have several friends at the grandmother end who are wearing this > > > >stress (as well as trying to live their own lives) and actually being > > > >diagnosed with depression -as their young daughters are struggling with > > > >mothering and finding it overwhelming - maybe we all need to learn to > > slow > > > >up somehow and reach out to each other more. It seems prescriptions > > (which > > > >I am not knocking either, as they are a definite lifeline, just the > irony > > > >that they are offered as the 'fix') are needed to cope with things that > > > >should be helped by support - yet the community for honoring mothering > > isnt > > > >really there and our life pace is getting so fast. Or could it be these > > new > > > >mums are part of a generation who missed out on nurturing themselves? > > > > > > > > There is a saying - "happiness is not in things it is in us" but > > > >perhaps it really isnt "in us" if we are stressed from birth and as > > infants > > > >-and possibly predisposed to react more sensitively to work/life > stress. > > > >There is evidence that excess stress hormones -iecortisol can "shrink"/ > > > >alter parts of the brain - at any age (I am just waiting for a new desk > > to > > > >arrive so all my stuff is inaccessible but had some interesting notes > > from > > > >a neuro psychologist at Monash on this). So if women were already > living > > > >under stress, then they would be close to the 'edge' and a baby could > be > > > >the final 'straw' . > > > > > > > > I am not sure how much of this stress is due to perception and > > > >expectations - surely mothers/ people in general havent always been so > > > >unhappy. > > > > > > > > Pinky > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Marilyn Kleidon > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 7:18 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep > > > > > > > > > > > > I totally agree with both Darren and Pinky as I am sure most > > > >everyone on the list does. However if you go to the Forums on that > > website, > > > >you see a whole other experience. It seems many new mothers have a > very > > > >unrealistic expectation about being a mother, and not much has changed > in > > > >30 years of the expectations of many men. Of course these expectations > > are > > > >reinforced by family and friends. > > > > > > > > The sad thing that seems to be hitting me over the head as I > work > > > >on the postnatal ward is that I think many women are latently (is that > > the > > > >right word) depressed: I mean just marginally below the surface of true > > > >clinical depression. And so it doesn't take much to tip them over the > > edge > > > >of not coping. They are not happy, they are barely coping with life, in > > > >short they are doing it tough. Maybe I am over reacting, I hope so. And > I > > > >don't think a mental health referral would help any more than a sleep > > baby > > > >sleep program. However I do think these baby sleep marketeers are > taking > > > >advantage of a climate of unhappiness. > > > > > > > > marilyn > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Darren Sunn > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 8:21 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree with Pinky, > > > > > > > > Sleep managment masqurades as many forms (controlled crying > > etc.) > > > > There exits undue pressure not only from your own family but > > from > > > >relatives and friends to implement some form of sleep modification. > > > >Especially when bith of you have had no sleep for days , your moody and > > > >feeling distressed. > > > > Our beautiful child is 12 months now and he recently went > > through > > > >a 2 week period of waking every hour. Needless to say we spent a lot of > > > >time supporting each other and I explained to my work collegues that i > > > >wasn't going to be much use..(ha ha). > > > > That was only a few weeks back and now he is sleeping with > only > > > >one or 2 wakes a night.(ps he does sleep with us also). > > > > He did have his molars comming through and I definately > believe > > > >they effected his sleeping patterns. > > > > > > > > Babies and their families need support and reassurance, not > > > >systems of behaviour modification. > > > > > > > > Darren > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Pinky McKay > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 9:06 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep > > > > > > > > > > > > YUk!!! > > > > Sounds cruel and a rip off to me - have you seen the > > Australian > > > >association of Infant mental health policy on controlled crying > (settling > > > >techniques included) -I have a copy if anyone wants to email me offlist > > (so > > > >I can attach). I will try and get it onto my website soon. > > > > > > > > BTW - they recommend my books as an alternative to CC. > > > > > > > > I had a mum at my infant massage class last week - with a > > > >beautiful 3 month old - very upset and confused as her MCH had told her > > her > > > >baby a) should be sleeping longer (and alone - she co-sleeps) b) she > > > >shouldnt allow him to fall asleep in the sling and c) if he breastfeeds > > to > > > >sleep this will cause insomnia as he will wake -ALL NIGHT - seeking a > > > >breast.Thankfully there was a wonderfully sensible mum of a seven month > > old > > > >whose baby had just gently weaned off bedtime booby who was able to > > > >reinforce that the baby knows what it is ready for - without force. We > > > >talked about how mothers can nurture themselves/ pressures/ make life > > > >simpler etc -then I gave homework - a "jarmy/ cocoon day" - feedback > was > > > >very positive about how much they struggled with pressure to be > > superwoman > > > >- and how much it really didnt matter that they left the dishes etc - > it > > > >was all still there or not important once they did get back into > things. > > > > > > > > I am sure many of these mums are just very pressured that > > their > > > >babies are not behaving "properly" - there is a lot of performance > > anxiety > > > >rather than actual exhaustion, and if exhaustion is the case - why? > What > > is > > > >the mother trying to do as well as mother and bond with her baby? > > > >-especially when many of these bubs are less than 6 weeks old - the > > > >traditional lying in time. Could the mother have PND and all theblame > is > > > >being laid on the baby? How can the mum nurture herself and could she > try > > > >some gentle techniques to help baby sleep a bit "better" - ie massage/ > > > >relaxation bath/ 'topup feed' last thing before she goes to > bed -without > > > >waking baby (breastmilk if bub is breastfed), minimising stimulation at > > > >bedtime - how many mums have TV on -this is a bombardmernt of new-born > > > >senses? Examine mums diet - ??high in salicylates/ caffeine etc which > > could > > > >make bub restless. ?Food intolerance. > > > > > > > > There are lots of simple commonsense things that should be > > > >passed on mother to mother without charging $500 - It really shows that > > not > > > >only birth and breastfeeding, but infant sleep management is > medicalised > > as > > > >well - Im not having a go at LCs here -I just feel we can see things > as > > > >problematic when it should all be a natural process; I feel the need > for > > > >breastfeeding intervention is real but likely due to issues surrounding > > > >birth - ?? are all these things a follow-on from managed birth -are we > > all > > > >that desperate for control? - and, would surrendering at birth help > > mothers > > > >surrender to the natural forces of mothering? I believe it would. > > > > > > > > Pinky > > > > www.pinky-mychild.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: hplerchbacher > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 9:47 PM > > > > Subject: [ozmidwifery] Sleep Baby Sleep > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Wise Listers, > > > > > > > > Has anyone heard of this program called "Sleep Baby > Sleep". > > > >One of the woman emailed someone and had quote of this superb course to > > > >positive routine management for $500. Please check out the website > > > >www.sleepbabysleep.net > > > > > > > > I told the woman and her husband to utilise local support > > > >instead. Is this a scam? > > > > > > > > Ping > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > > > Version: 6.0.490 / Virus Database: 289 - Release Date: > > > >16/06/2003 > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Hotmail is now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to > > > http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/signup.asp > > > > > > -- > > > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. > > > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe. > > > > -- > > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. > > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe. > > -- > > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. > > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe. > > > > > > -- > > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. > > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe. > > -- > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
