----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 10:13
AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] was formula,
now HELP for b/f
"It is so important to acknowledge the importance
of breastfeeding and breastmilk but it doesn't mean that those who cannot bf
for whatever reason love and nurture their babies any less than those
who bf. Many women I know also juggle the despair of not giving their baby the
'best' the worry that causes and the shame they feel bottling in front of bf
women as well as their constant sense of failure or inadequacy as mothers.
This is a terrible thing and we should be supporting these women and providing
them with our nurturing skills to enhance their sense of selves. bf success
doesnt not mean a 'better' mother." - Belinda
What a beautiful letter, Belinda. This is so true
-mothers definitely need support to ENJOY their babies. These are
so often the mums who call me saying "I need to learn infant massage - I dont
feel as though this baby is mine" - it is beautiful to see their confidence
and bonding "click" after just a few weeks or sooner - and perhaps
because things (birth/ breastfeeding) havent worked out, they are nurturing
very consciously and connectedly - I wholeheartedly agree that although
breastfeeding is a wonderful mothering tool, it isnt a guarantee of a "better
mother".
Interestingly, although I feel strongly about not
"pussyfooting" around about breastfeeding as the "biological norm" - and I was
probably the speaker judith was referring to at ACT /NSW ABA conf, (My
talk was "Not Guilty -promoting breastfeeding, promoting guilt), I have been
quite pleasantly surprised that I dont FEEL any "different" ??
"judgemental "(not sure of the word here, but somebody expressed
sympathy to the bottle fed baby) towards a bottlefeeding pair (and I
have sat and bottlefed a twin at classes recently) - hopefully,
mothers do sense my empathy at their sadness, but for me, when I am
with mums it simply "is" however she is feeding her baby.
The mothers' stories come out as part of normal
discussion. A very sad one lately was a mum whose bub refused the breast -
(Formula in hosp nursery/ caesar/ haemorrrhage/ infection) and after
expressing/ bottling for 4 months (she was seeing an LC, but also
interestingly as she practised massage her supply increased dramatically ??
bonding effects enhancing oxytocin) , she has had a return of cancer and is
having chemo - she had herself been breastfed for 3 years so was under no
illusions about breastfeeding both as an optimum food , or a physical
_expression_ of love between mother and child - and as Belinda expressed - the
despair about not giving her baby the best was enormous - it is very sad
to have a mothering experience clouded with these feelings so early on.
I do feel tho that when we deny or are complacent
about the value of breastfeeding, we actually deny women a chance to grieve
because we arent fully acknowledging their losses - its like saying to a woman
who has a traumatic birth - "never mind you have a healthy baby - move
on".
As Rita and Abbey have described - the
feelings are grief and deep sadness, not guilt -no mum is a "failure" -whether
she tries to breastfeed or not -I imagine the hurt from a previous experience
could deter some mums from attempting to breastfeed at all with
subsequent babies - there is no worse emotion than disappointment. My own
first child was a "drugged" baby , who became ill and required ICU care -he
was fed formula as a newborn, no doubt sensitising him with allergens and
resulting in asthma, I also wonder at the effects of formula on his tiny
developing neurostransmitters - although there is a family history, he is (so
far) the only child who has developed a bipolar/affective disorder - bipolar
with some psychotic episodes -the others were fully breastfed and hopefully
will be protected (three are now past the age he presented). While I feel
sadness every day at the life my bright beautiful child must live as he
struggles with drug side effects to maintain his stability and wonder "was it
the early formula?", I also believe that the gentle, connected mothering
he experienced has been a great help in that I have been able to
encourage him to "listen to your body" and he does always come to me
when he is becoming ill, and he has never been violent or
destructive (as many parents at support groups I have attended
report - this isnt a judgement on their parenting, but I have heard some
parents talk about their children as "objects" (and I would 'bop" them if they
spoke to me like this) ie "my son is a scizophrenic" - really,this is a
person who is living with a horrendously frustrating illness, it is not
"who he is")
As mothers, we do need to look at all the
wonderful things we are doing, and we need to encourage each other to do
this - I always try to acknowledge something tangible that each mother is
doing so this is believable to the woman herself (Not "empty" praise like "You
are a good mother" ).
As I have said in Parenting By Heart - "our kids
are not cakes, we can't at 18, say, 'oops I forgot the baking powder' but,
like cakes, it takes a whole bowlful of ingredients for them to "turn out" -
although nuturing choices like birth and breastfeeding are significant to our
own sense of self as mothers and to our children, it isnt "just the birth" or
"just the breast" , there are lots of influences as they grow.
Pinky
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004
9:22 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] was formula,
now HELP for b/f
as the placenta is throwing off hormones to
stop your milk coming in in pregnancy, when third stage is complete the
hormones disappear quickly, prolactin rises and your milk comes in. A bit of
placenta left can certainly still inhibit your milk coming in properly and
establishing. Anemia can also affect your supply - how was/is that.
Domperidol is far better drug than maxalon, find a gp/lc there are some
great ones around. Did your breasts grow in puberty, it is another
possibility that something in puberty inhibited growth of adequate
functioning breast tissue. There are a myriad or possibilities for
your supply baby growth issues. Certainly filling the baby up with abm can
cause major problems but it seems in spite of this you tried many things
that should have helped. Did you see a lc at the time? Also remember if it
doesn't work hasn't worked mothering is a compex thing and the emotional
growth of your children is paramount (as well as their nutritional
wellbeing).
A friend of mine supplemented her fourth child
after three screaming poor weight gaining babies who lived at the breast for
a year or cried, no in-between. After much heartache she decided to comp her
fourth (she would have paid dearly for bm if she could have got a hold of
some) and her baby thrived and was a happy baby immensely enjoyed by
her mother. I believe she had limited functioning breast tissue and there is
nothing you can do about that. I think we get lost in the af vs bf debate
and forget to help mothers enjoy their babies and gain confidence in
themselves as mothers women.
I have helped many women as a lc in private
practice but I have also counseled women who for reasons such as the drugs
they need to survive day to day (depression or migraine issues that do not
respond to drugs that are okay to use with bf) poor breast tissue,
significant breast refusal (as a lc If they ask to see me and the baby is
over 6weeks old it can be very difficult to get tham back onto the breast so
they often end up expressing and bottling)
It is so important to acknowledge the
importance of breastfeeding and breastmilk but it doesn't mean that those
who cannot bf for whatever reason love and nurture their babies any
less than those who bf. Many women I know also juggle the despair of not
giving their baby the 'best' the worry that causes and the shame they feel
bottling in front of bf women as well as their constant sense of failure or
inadequacy as mothers. This is a terrible thing and we should be supporting
these women and providing them with our nurturing skills to enhance their
sense of selves. bf success doesnt not mean a 'better' mother.
We should also be fighting the unethical
marketing of infant baby milk, doctors who give out free samples or who
minimise the benefits of breastfeeding, poor hospital practices, the lack of
a breast milk banks etc etc...
Good luck Rita, find a lc to help you identify
where the problems are coming from so you can work out a plan of
action.
Belinda
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004
9:25 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] was
formula, now HELP for b/f
Colleen,
May I please ask how the 'Eglonyl' helped, how long you remained on
this medication and what side effects if any that you experienced.
As I have previous difficulties as some have been previously described,
I have been given maxalon for one of them to no avail. It was also
suggested for me to use motilium but did not get to that point.
I also have a question for you wonderful wise women. With
some information and background first.
With babe No. 4, throughout the pregnancy as with any pregnancy
being different, this one was as well and more noiticable was the
different way in which my breasts responded to the pregnancy. I felt
confident and secure that finally this time I would be successful in
breastfeeding my babe.
But alas, it again was not to be. I have a theory and would love
some feedback. With this babe, I was prescribed the maxalon at a
higher than normal dose for lactation assistance (4 q.i.d) - or so I was
'told'. Babe started experiencing extremely low blood sugar levels and
despite my refusal, they supplemented him with would you believe 50MLS
EVERY THREE HOURS, when gastric tube placed in gut for the next feed,
there was formula coming back up, HE WASN'T HUNGRY, but I know that
50mls is certainly excessive.
The question relates to the fact that post birth I felt extremely boggy
in the uterus and felt as if I had retained products......... I even
passed what I still to this day KNOW was placental tissue (as a student
midwife, you certainly see a lot of clots etc. on pads
post-partum.......) I kept it and a 'midwife' looked at it, flushed
it and said 'no that is nothing, just a blood clot'. The one thing I
did NOT experience with this breastfeeding experience was that of my milk
'coming in'. For 6 weeks I argued with M&CHN and doctor that I
had retained products and that I still had not experienced my milk coming
in and was 'ignored'. Three months later with babe on formula, me
still spotting bright PV loss, I saw my gyno whom performed a D & C
and lo and behold - PATH RESULT - RETAINED PRODUCTS OF CONCEPTION.........
(No way this could have been a 'miscarriage' or 'blighted ovum') as no
sexual intercourse had occurred post-natally.
! P>
What degree of impact do you wonderful women believe the retained
placental bits and pieces would have actually had on my breastfeeding
experience. Just to add to this, I had reason to see my gyno for
unrelated issue and asked him regarding the possiblity of retaining this
time around and explained the reason behind my question and his reply was
'Totally nonsense, that would not have had any impact on your
breastfeeding what-so-ever??????????????????????????????' This
comment came from a very well known AND respected Obsetrician whom many
are aware......................... I must say that I am still in
shock from his comment.
Looking forward to your replies.
Thanx for putting up with my many posts regarding this issue.
Yours in Childbirth
Rita
Van Onselen Family <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
I couldnt feed my 2nd child on day 10 and was offered formula or
diluted
cows milk.I remember saying to the doctor that since I was
going to damage
the child in the long run I might as well get it over
and done with now and
"euthinase her" to say he was shocked and all
were appalled is not an
understatement but these tactics helped and I
was given Eglonyl and fed 2
babies for 2 years each with a boost on
this psychiatric drug .
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