>> Wpf has had little or next to no investments beyond what the vs2010 team needed and some basics from variety of community sources if any. It's had zero marketing budget and wasn't even mentioned as a developer story in win7 launches
I get that feeling too, but I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. I really like that the changes in the latest version of WPF are driven by their own dog-fooding needs, rather than "guessing" at what their customers might want. That's where the best frameworks come from. There are some small things I'd like to see improved in WPF, but .NET 4.0 fixed most of my complaints and overall I'm pretty happy with it. A skeleton team of 3 people and a chicken is probably fine, since it's already come so far. In short, it's not about being "dead", it's about recognizing that it's "done". If they had a spare 500 developers to work on it, what exactly would they do? I expect they'd be out of real problems to solve, so they'd invent problems to solve, and the framework would get bloated. I'm actually quite happy with the idea of Microsoft taking some time to build their own applications on WPF, and letting it evolve slowly and properly. WPF has a nice market niche in the ISV/disconnected client world, a world that simply cannot use Silverlight/HTML5. That market is simply not as big as the market of people building websites, and I don't think it needs to be. WPF competes with Windows Forms/VB 6 and Cocoa, not HTML5 and Flash, so I'm not sure it really needs a huge marketing budget. Now, to the thing that annoys me about this post. Having an opinion on HTML5/Silverlight/WPF and the direction they should go is one thing, and sharing those opinions on ways to improve can be helpful. But airing what you claim to be internal "Microsoft" laundry, while not actually sharing any proof or enough context, and trading on your credentials as an "insider" just adds Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt to the market. The post has plenty of opinions and hyperbole, but no actual evidence to back it up. Despite the post, we can't be sure that Silverlight/WPF are going to "die", however much you might think so. But what we can be sure about is companies that were about to start developing new applications are now going to be stuck in limbo because they're suddenly unsure of what's going to happen to the stacks they're building on. That's not good for the market, and I fail to see what "good" comes out of a post like this. Paul On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Scott Barnes <[email protected]>wrote: > Nice post Jordan ;) > > My thoughts personally is there is room for both and I'm on record by > saying msft should consider using sl + ie together to handle the html5 > execution silently - it drives ubiquity and upholds both sides of the isle. > > Wpf has had little or next to no investments beyond what the vs2010 team > needed and some basics from variety of community sources if any. It's had > zero marketing budget and wasn't even mentioned as a developer story in win7 > launches. Declaring it dead is easy, burying the corpse is the hard part ;) > > Win8 team aren't taking bets on it so say what u will but either I am right > or msft tomorrow makes an official declaration of how they plan to pump some > momentum behind it. Either outcome is pushing the old with new forward for a > greater good and won't be suddenly dumped on everyones laps at a point where > it's too late to steer a different direction. > > Dead doesn't mean instantly gone it can take years - look at xp. It just > signals to all "get off or else" is all :/ > > I am pro wpf / silverlight btw and want these to continue to grow > > -- > Sent from my mini iPad nano > (excuse my spilling and grammar as I have giant man like fingers and this > device as small keys) > > On 15/09/2010, at 11:17 AM, Jordan Knight <[email protected]> wrote: > > I'd also like to raise some points RE HTML5 and WPF/SL etc. > > Back in the 1890's the head of the US patent office declared he was going > to close the office because he thought that there was nothing left to > invent... rather short sighted given hindsight... > > My point is that HTML5 will bring to the masses through standardisation the > features that consumers have come to demand thanks to agile plugins like SL > and Flash. To quote the SL team blog post that flamed the debate - SL/Flash > trailblaze and HTML5 will then pave the road. These features are already out > there and pervasive (demanded) - so why not standardise and give them the > ultimate reach they deserve! Bravo - it's a really good idea, and consumers > win. The stuff that was around years ago will now be available through > standards. > > But there is new stuff now... that stuff has been done - tech moves on. > > Where consumers *also* win is that SL and Flash are all about ideas and > tech that doesn't/didn't exist yet + getting it to market fast. It's a > playground for great ideas. 3D video. Surround sound, adaptive smooth > streaming (for the SL = video zealots). Multitouch, multi screen, multi > bloody everything. Rapid development (through Des/Dev workflows) + awesome > tooling. > > Consumers like apps too remember. They would much rather read their EPG in > an app than have a link to a web page on their desktop. > > And what about other ideas that don't really exist yet. To say that WPF is > dead and/or dying - well I say to you - there is more to the world of UX and > consumerism than just the browser/current thinking. I think that WPF is > _still_ ahead of its time. Tech/devices are moving wayyyyy too fast for > HTML5 spec to keep up with (what about this cheap new device? > <http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/13/microsoft-principal-researcher-bill-buxton-surface-will-be-in-h/> > http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/13/microsoft-principal-researcher-bill-buxton-surface-will-be-in-h/ > )... > > I think the HTML5 vs the world debate is forgetting about the consumer > app/hi-tech/new shiny device market - it will/(*is*) be hooooooge! And we > need to keep the consumers happy (which means being nimble!). > > HTML5 is great, bringing what we demand to spec. Yaay for Vimeo working on > my iPhone! Plugins are great bringing us the latest tech quickly. And... as > new screens are added (Surface, phones etc)... then you can be sure i'll be > betting the farm on ripping out apps quickly on tech like WPF... > > Cheap Surfaces, every shop... WPF = killer. > > My 2 cents :) > > On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 9:01 PM, Tatham Oddie < <[email protected]> > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Even as the web standards zealot in the corner, I wouldn’t agree with many >> of Scott’s points. >> >> >> >> Jordan Knight and I just discussed the relationship between HTML5 and >> Silverlight across two episodes of Frankly Speaking: >> >> >> >> <http://www.noisetosignal.com.au/franklyspeaking/?p=256> >> http://www.noisetosignal.com.au/franklyspeaking/?p=256 >> >> <http://www.noisetosignal.com.au/franklyspeaking/?p=260> >> http://www.noisetosignal.com.au/franklyspeaking/?p=260 >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Tatham Oddie >> >> au mob: +61 414 275 989, us cell: +1 213 280 9140, skype: tathamoddie >> >> If you’re printing this email, you’re doing it wrong. This is a computer, >> not a typewriter. >> >> >> >> *From:* <[email protected]> >> [email protected] >> [mailto:<[email protected]> >> [email protected]] *On Behalf Of >> *<[email protected]> >> [email protected] >> *Sent:* Tuesday, 14 September 2010 6:33 PM >> *To:* ozSilverlight >> *Subject:* Interesting article re: WPF/Silverlight/HTML5 on riagenic >> >> >> >> Via CodeProject 'Daily News' (14/09/2010) - >> <http://www.riagenic.com/archives/363> >> http://www.riagenic.com/archives/363 >> >> >> >> Dr. Dan Lazner, PhD | Software Architect/Engineer/Developer >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ozsilverlight mailing list >> <[email protected]>[email protected] >> <http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight> >> http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight >> >> > _______________________________________________ > ozsilverlight mailing list > [email protected] > http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight > > > _______________________________________________ > ozsilverlight mailing list > [email protected] > http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight > > -- Paul Stovell
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