Looking at the previous examples, we have to be careful not to mix the semantics of placeholders and labels:
- Labels tell you what (name, email, etc) - Placeholders/syntax hints give you hints on how (‘your full name’, [email protected]’) The examples in the last 2 emails are not placeholders but labels that sit where placeholders are normally rendered. As for the placeholder discussion: - I agree that having hints on the right side will give space problems in many cases - I don’t think we should worry too much about vertical space, people can scroll - Option 4 where the error message takes the place of the (syntax) hint works well in practice, sometimes that means that all you need to do is ‘color the syntax message red'. - I would suggest we use the placeholder attribute only for actual placeholders like ‘[email protected]’ and always render descriptive hints outside the input field Thanks for creating all these wireframes Jessica, -Thomas Thomas Maas Designer [email protected] > On 17 Jan 2017, at 15:32, Sarah Rambacher <[email protected]> wrote: > > Yes, that's like what I saw. Chris found these other examples too - > > http://littlebigdetails.com/post/82478225432/circleci-once-activated-the-input-placeholders > > https://github.com/jverdi/JVFloatLabeledTextField > > On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 9:07 AM, Leslie Hinson <[email protected]> wrote: > Yes! I've seen this too Sarah. Check out the video [1] on material to see an > example of this behavior (however they are using it for labels vs syntax > hints). > > Option 1 can be tricky when you take responsiveness into consideration. This > was a large discussion when discussing required/optional fields. > > [1] > https://material.io/guidelines/components/text-fields.html#text-fields-search-filter > > - Leslie > > > On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 8:22 AM, Sarah Rambacher <[email protected]> wrote: > I saw an interesting way of doing this on PayPal - if I remember correctly, > there was placeholder text until you clicked into the field, and then the > field enlarged slightly and the placeholder text was still shown within the > field but in smaller text above where you were typing. > > I'm not sure how to find it again - it was from a site that linked me into > PayPal for a one-time payment, and I remember thinking "hey, that's nice" but > was focused on my task and didn't take the time to screenshot it ;-P > > On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 5:24 PM, Patrick Cox <[email protected]> wrote: > What is the typical length of a syntax hint? What is the max length? What > about the length of text for corrective action? > > If they can get long, it seems like you'd want to put them below the field > and allow them to wrap underneath it. If you have lengthy text, putting it > out to the right side seems like it could look wonky and/or be hard to read > if it wraps, or possibly force horizontal scrolling if it doesn't. Putting > lengthy text inside the field could truncate it. > > It seems to me that you'd want as much flexibility as you can get to > accommodate variability in this situation, and putting the text below the > fields will afford that the most of any of the solutions. > > Pat > > On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Allie Jacobs <[email protected]> wrote: > My reasons for not liking 1&2 is because once you start typing, you lose the > syntax help. If it's something complicated or if we generalize this to field > level help, the user might need to reference it again. I prefer 3 for this > reasons. > With #2 the user has to look further away (above the field) to find out what > syntax rule was not met. With #4 that info is closer to the field. > > On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 3:43 PM, Jenny Haines <[email protected]> wrote: > Option 1/2 seems like a great option because it would suit a variety of cases. > • By having the specific details in the top error message box, the > error message is freed up to mention any errors not dealing with just single > form fields, but also dependencies between form fields. > • If there are multiple errors, the error details will take up less > vertical space when encased in the top error message box. Less vertical space > is due to the error details having more horizontal real estate before needing > to wrap to the next line. (This is especially important in form layouts like > the one Greg has included, above. You'll notice in this case, there isn't a > ton of horizontal real estate under the form fields.) > > Jenny Haines > UI/VISUAL DESIGNER > (m) 443-889-2881 > [email protected] > [email protected] > > On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 3:18 PM, Matt Carrano <[email protected]> wrote: > It may be hard to have one answer that works in all cases. It may be the 6/7 > is the best default choice. But for modals or other forms that must exist in > a constrained space, placeholder text (1/2) is an acceptable alternative. > > Matt > > On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 3:14 PM, Catherine Robson <[email protected]> wrote: > Greg, > > Why would you use syntax hints with a selector/dropdown? There are only > limited options, so syntax shouldn't be a problem in those cases I would > assume. > > - Catherine > > On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Greg Sheremeta <[email protected]> wrote: > Check out this wizard we're implementing in oVirt. Option 6/7 simply won't > work with this wizard at its current width. > > However, how would 1/2 work with select boxes? > > So -- I'm not sure :) > > Best wishes, > Greg > > <wizard.png> > > On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Catherine Robson <[email protected]> wrote: > Jessica, > > Thanks for so nicely laying out the options! I lean towards #6,7, with #1,2 > as a possible backup. Reasoning: > > 1, 2. The inline syntax hints keep the form concise and easy to scan without > the syntax hints adding to the visual clutter of the page. In *most* use > cases, having the syntax hints overwritten by the user when they add a value > shouldn't be much of a problem, but see why I prefer #6, 7 below as a reason > for when this is a problem. > > 3, 4, 5. Below the field feels like it takes up too much vertical space on a > form area where vertical space is usually the worst constraint. There are > many forms where it feels like we're trying to come up with "more > information" (wrap fields to two columns, show additional information or > contextual information to the sides, etc etc) to show horizontally because > the page is so horizontally skinny and there is a lot of whitespace to the > right of the fields. This is why I prefer 6, 7 that leans towards using that > space over growing an already vertically long form even longer. If users are > doing two-column forms there might be a conflict with 6,7 though. > > 6, 7. I prefer this one the most because the syntax always remains, is off > to the right where it doesn't grow the form or distract users in most cases, > but is reference when users need it. There are use cases where there may be > default values or existing values in a form (edit mode for an already created > system for instance) so that the inline syntax hints (1, 2) would be > invisible for a user who is changing those values. This one feels like the > best use of space and persistence. > > - Catherine > > On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 2:15 PM, Jessica Ryhanych <[email protected]> wrote: > Hey PatternFlyers, > I’ve attached a few wireframes addressing the initial discovery work [1] on > syntax hints. Please send your thoughts on which option we should move > forward with as the recommendation and what issues you see with it, if any. > Here we go: > > 1. Placeholder syntax hints – wireframe shows the form before user clicks or > starts typing into the field > > <1. Placeholder syntax hint.png> > > > 2. Placeholder syntax hints – wireframe shows the form after user has typed > data into field, submitted, and an error message is returned. The error > message would need to specifically detail the problem with the syntax. > > <2. Placeholder syntax hint with error message.png> > > > > 3. Syntax hints below input field > > <3. Syntax below input field.png> > > > 4. Syntax hints below input field – Original syntax hint would be removed and > replaced with red error message that reiterates syntax requirements below > form field. > > <4. Syntax hint below input field, error message copy.png> > > > 5. Syntax hints below input field – Syntax hint stays on the page after user > submits and error message appears below original hint. > > ***This option seems redundant IMO and could be confusing / overwhelming > visually but I’m curious if anyone could see a scenario where this might be > needed. > > <5. Syntax hint below input field, error message.png> > > > > 6. Syntax hints in-line with form field > > <6. Syntax inline with form field.png> > > > 7. Syntax hints in-line with form field – Syntax hint stays on screen after > the user submits and receives an error message. > > ***This could have similar challenges as #5 above and if needed, a responsive > / mobile page layout would need to be determined. > > <7. Syntax inline with form field, error message.png> > > Thoughts, ideas, suggestions? Thanks! > Jessica > > > [1] https://blog.patternfly.org/exploring-syntax-hints/ > > > / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / > > Jessica W. Ryhanych > User Experience Design > Red Hat > [email protected] > > > _______________________________________________ > Patternfly mailing list > [email protected] > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly > > > > _______________________________________________ > Patternfly mailing list > [email protected] > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly > > > > > -- > Greg Sheremeta, MBA > Red Hat, Inc. > Sr. Software Engineer > [email protected] > > > _______________________________________________ > Patternfly mailing list > [email protected] > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly > > > > > -- > Matt Carrano > Sr. Interaction Designer > Red Hat, Inc. > [email protected] > > _______________________________________________ > Patternfly mailing list > [email protected] > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly > > > > _______________________________________________ > Patternfly mailing list > [email protected] > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly > > > > > -- > > Allie Jacobs > UXD > calendar > > > _______________________________________________ > Patternfly mailing list > [email protected] > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly > > > > > -- > Patrick Cox > Manager, User Experience Design > 919-264-3017 (mobile) > [email protected] > > _______________________________________________ > Patternfly mailing list > [email protected] > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly > > > > _______________________________________________ > Patternfly mailing list > [email protected] > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly > > > > _______________________________________________ > Patternfly mailing list > [email protected] > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly _______________________________________________ Patternfly mailing list [email protected] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly
