Ah, right… sorry if i misinterpreted Thomas Maas Designer [email protected]
> On 17 Jan 2017, at 17:58, Allie Jacobs <[email protected]> wrote: > > I interpreted Sarah's suggestion as using the same behavior in the examples > with labels but having the placeholder syntax hints shrink and move below the > input field as you type. It's an interesting idea. > > On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 11:05 AM, Thomas Maas <[email protected]> wrote: > Looking at the previous examples, we have to be careful not to mix the > semantics of placeholders and labels: > > - Labels tell you what (name, email, etc) > - Placeholders/syntax hints give you hints on how (‘your full name’, > [email protected]’) > > The examples in the last 2 emails are not placeholders but labels that sit > where placeholders are normally rendered. > > As for the placeholder discussion: > > - I agree that having hints on the right side will give space problems in > many cases > - I don’t think we should worry too much about vertical space, people can > scroll > - Option 4 where the error message takes the place of the (syntax) hint works > well in practice, sometimes that means that all you need to do is ‘color the > syntax message red'. > - I would suggest we use the placeholder attribute only for actual > placeholders like ‘[email protected]’ and always render descriptive hints > outside the input field > > Thanks for creating all these wireframes Jessica, > -Thomas > > Thomas Maas > Designer > [email protected] > > > > > > On 17 Jan 2017, at 15:32, Sarah Rambacher <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Yes, that's like what I saw. Chris found these other examples too - > > > > http://littlebigdetails.com/post/82478225432/circleci-once-activated-the-input-placeholders > > > > https://github.com/jverdi/JVFloatLabeledTextField > > > > On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 9:07 AM, Leslie Hinson <[email protected]> wrote: > > Yes! I've seen this too Sarah. Check out the video [1] on material to see > > an example of this behavior (however they are using it for labels vs syntax > > hints). > > > > Option 1 can be tricky when you take responsiveness into consideration. > > This was a large discussion when discussing required/optional fields. > > > > [1] > > https://material.io/guidelines/components/text-fields.html#text-fields-search-filter > > > > - Leslie > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 8:22 AM, Sarah Rambacher <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > I saw an interesting way of doing this on PayPal - if I remember correctly, > > there was placeholder text until you clicked into the field, and then the > > field enlarged slightly and the placeholder text was still shown within the > > field but in smaller text above where you were typing. > > > > I'm not sure how to find it again - it was from a site that linked me into > > PayPal for a one-time payment, and I remember thinking "hey, that's nice" > > but was focused on my task and didn't take the time to screenshot it ;-P > > > > On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 5:24 PM, Patrick Cox <[email protected]> wrote: > > What is the typical length of a syntax hint? What is the max length? What > > about the length of text for corrective action? > > > > If they can get long, it seems like you'd want to put them below the field > > and allow them to wrap underneath it. If you have lengthy text, putting it > > out to the right side seems like it could look wonky and/or be hard to read > > if it wraps, or possibly force horizontal scrolling if it doesn't. Putting > > lengthy text inside the field could truncate it. > > > > It seems to me that you'd want as much flexibility as you can get to > > accommodate variability in this situation, and putting the text below the > > fields will afford that the most of any of the solutions. > > > > Pat > > > > On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Allie Jacobs <[email protected]> wrote: > > My reasons for not liking 1&2 is because once you start typing, you lose > > the syntax help. If it's something complicated or if we generalize this to > > field level help, the user might need to reference it again. I prefer 3 for > > this reasons. > > With #2 the user has to look further away (above the field) to find out > > what syntax rule was not met. With #4 that info is closer to the field. > > > > On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 3:43 PM, Jenny Haines <[email protected]> wrote: > > Option 1/2 seems like a great option because it would suit a variety of > > cases. > > • By having the specific details in the top error message box, the > > error message is freed up to mention any errors not dealing with just > > single form fields, but also dependencies between form fields. > > • If there are multiple errors, the error details will take up less > > vertical space when encased in the top error message box. Less vertical > > space is due to the error details having more horizontal real estate before > > needing to wrap to the next line. (This is especially important in form > > layouts like the one Greg has included, above. You'll notice in this case, > > there isn't a ton of horizontal real estate under the form fields.) > > > > Jenny Haines > > UI/VISUAL DESIGNER > > (m) 443-889-2881 > > [email protected] > > [email protected] > > > > On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 3:18 PM, Matt Carrano <[email protected]> wrote: > > It may be hard to have one answer that works in all cases. It may be the > > 6/7 is the best default choice. But for modals or other forms that must > > exist in a constrained space, placeholder text (1/2) is an acceptable > > alternative. > > > > Matt > > > > On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 3:14 PM, Catherine Robson <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > Greg, > > > > Why would you use syntax hints with a selector/dropdown? There are only > > limited options, so syntax shouldn't be a problem in those cases I would > > assume. > > > > - Catherine > > > > On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Greg Sheremeta <[email protected]> wrote: > > Check out this wizard we're implementing in oVirt. Option 6/7 simply won't > > work with this wizard at its current width. > > > > However, how would 1/2 work with select boxes? > > > > So -- I'm not sure :) > > > > Best wishes, > > Greg > > > > <wizard.png> > > > > On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Catherine Robson <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > Jessica, > > > > Thanks for so nicely laying out the options! I lean towards #6,7, with > > #1,2 as a possible backup. Reasoning: > > > > 1, 2. The inline syntax hints keep the form concise and easy to scan > > without the syntax hints adding to the visual clutter of the page. In > > *most* use cases, having the syntax hints overwritten by the user when they > > add a value shouldn't be much of a problem, but see why I prefer #6, 7 > > below as a reason for when this is a problem. > > > > 3, 4, 5. Below the field feels like it takes up too much vertical space on > > a form area where vertical space is usually the worst constraint. There > > are many forms where it feels like we're trying to come up with "more > > information" (wrap fields to two columns, show additional information or > > contextual information to the sides, etc etc) to show horizontally because > > the page is so horizontally skinny and there is a lot of whitespace to the > > right of the fields. This is why I prefer 6, 7 that leans towards using > > that space over growing an already vertically long form even longer. If > > users are doing two-column forms there might be a conflict with 6,7 though. > > > > 6, 7. I prefer this one the most because the syntax always remains, is off > > to the right where it doesn't grow the form or distract users in most > > cases, but is reference when users need it. There are use cases where > > there may be default values or existing values in a form (edit mode for an > > already created system for instance) so that the inline syntax hints (1, 2) > > would be invisible for a user who is changing those values. This one > > feels like the best use of space and persistence. > > > > - Catherine > > > > On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 2:15 PM, Jessica Ryhanych <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > Hey PatternFlyers, > > I’ve attached a few wireframes addressing the initial discovery work [1] on > > syntax hints. Please send your thoughts on which option we should move > > forward with as the recommendation and what issues you see with it, if any. > > Here we go: > > > > 1. Placeholder syntax hints – wireframe shows the form before user clicks > > or starts typing into the field > > > > <1. Placeholder syntax hint.png> > > > > > > 2. Placeholder syntax hints – wireframe shows the form after user has typed > > data into field, submitted, and an error message is returned. The error > > message would need to specifically detail the problem with the syntax. > > > > <2. Placeholder syntax hint with error message.png> > > > > > > > > 3. Syntax hints below input field > > > > <3. Syntax below input field.png> > > > > > > 4. Syntax hints below input field – Original syntax hint would be removed > > and replaced with red error message that reiterates syntax requirements > > below form field. > > > > <4. Syntax hint below input field, error message copy.png> > > > > > > 5. Syntax hints below input field – Syntax hint stays on the page after > > user submits and error message appears below original hint. > > > > ***This option seems redundant IMO and could be confusing / overwhelming > > visually but I’m curious if anyone could see a scenario where this might be > > needed. > > > > <5. Syntax hint below input field, error message.png> > > > > > > > > 6. Syntax hints in-line with form field > > > > <6. Syntax inline with form field.png> > > > > > > 7. Syntax hints in-line with form field – Syntax hint stays on screen after > > the user submits and receives an error message. > > > > ***This could have similar challenges as #5 above and if needed, a > > responsive / mobile page layout would need to be determined. > > > > <7. Syntax inline with form field, error message.png> > > > > Thoughts, ideas, suggestions? Thanks! > > Jessica > > > > > > [1] https://blog.patternfly.org/exploring-syntax-hints/ > > > > > > / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / > > > > Jessica W. Ryhanych > > User Experience Design > > Red Hat > > [email protected] > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Patternfly mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Patternfly mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Greg Sheremeta, MBA > > Red Hat, Inc. > > Sr. Software Engineer > > [email protected] > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Patternfly mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Matt Carrano > > Sr. Interaction Designer > > Red Hat, Inc. > > [email protected] > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Patternfly mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Patternfly mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Allie Jacobs > > UXD > > calendar > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Patternfly mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Patrick Cox > > Manager, User Experience Design > > 919-264-3017 (mobile) > > [email protected] > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Patternfly mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Patternfly mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Patternfly mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly > > > _______________________________________________ > Patternfly mailing list > [email protected] > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly > > > > -- > > Allie Jacobs > UXD > calendar > _______________________________________________ Patternfly mailing list [email protected] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly
