@stian, IMO the first thing to do is to encourage users to use a recent browser, especially if they use tools that affect the security of their users. And see if the number decrease.
@stan 5% of users for 30% more code and 30% more development time. Is not it important to bring value first to the remaining 99% before? I mean, for me it's more important to release a version of patternfly-next quickly to get feedback from the community than to manage all browsers just in case. Of course this is only my opinion :) Cheers On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 11:09 PM, Andres Galante <[email protected]> wrote: > I don't think there are pollyfills for css variables the way we are using > them or grids. But we can look into that. > > On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 5:40 PM, Stan Silvert <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On 5/22/2018 4:23 PM, Andres Galante wrote: >> >> Leslie has been meeting with different team to take this decisions based >> on their requirements and roadmaps. She is on vacation this week so we can >> probably continue this discussing next week. >> >> Here is my reasoning: >> >> IE11 is a burden, not only because we can't use css variables and grid >> among other modern CSS features but also because it increases the time of >> development to write fallbacks and testing and it makes the codebase harder >> to maintain. >> >> Patternfly next beta will out during the next 6 month-ish and a stable >> version probably by the end of the year or beginning of the next. By the >> time we have a stable version and projects start adopting it, it's a safe >> assumption that IE11 will be irrelevant. >> >> Does it make sense? >> >> I think your reasoning makes perfect sense. >> >> On the other hand, we can't just ignore 2% to 7% of our user base. Even >> if IE11 is down to 1% of the market, we will still need a solution. If 1 >> out of 100 users can't use your web site then you are in trouble. >> >> If there is an effective pollyfill available then I think that would be >> good enough for us. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 5:01 PM, Stan Silvert <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Maybe we can load a polyfill when we detect IE11? >>> >>> Would this work for all the new features you plan to use Andres? >>> >>> >>> On 5/22/2018 3:31 PM, Stian Thorgersen wrote: >>> >>> On keycloak.org we have ~5% on IE11 this year. Of IE users 95% of our >>> users are on IE11. >>> >>> Looking at https://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php there's 2.81% for >>> IE11. On http://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/wo >>> rldwide it says 7.17%, which I assume is mostly IE11. They don't give >>> details on individual versions as far as I can see. >>> >>> From my understanding there's still a lot of folks on Windows XP in the >>> world and a good proportion has not updated to Edge. I remember how long it >>> took to get rid of IE6. >>> >>> For RH-SSO and Keycloak we have login pages as well as the account >>> management console that both should be available to most users. Available >>> is subjective of course, but if there's CSS variables used which is not >>> supported at all on IE11 I would assume it would look very bad on IE11? >>> >>> On 22 May 2018 at 21:05, Andres Galante <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Stian, >>>> >>>> How much of that IE traffic is IE11? >>>> >>>> On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Stian Thorgersen <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> According to http://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/wo >>>>> rldwide >>>>> >>>>> IE11 is still more popular than Edge. >>>>> >>>>> I get the same numbers from keycloak.org. >>>>> >>>>> On 22 May 2018 at 20:07, Stian Thorgersen <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Is the world really ready to move on from IE11? For admin facing apps >>>>>> I don't see it as a problem, but what about end-user facing apps? >>>>>> >>>>>> On 18 May 2018 at 10:53, Guillaume Vincent <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> this is a good news, thank you patternfly ! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 1:22 PM, Andres Galante <[email protected] >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Stan, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes! it means we'll go back to use CSS variables following the same 2 >>>>>>>> tier variable system >>>>>>>> <https://css-tricks.com/theming-with-variables-globals-and-locals/> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We'll also be able to use CSS grids to build layouts :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 8:14 AM, Stan Silvert <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm quite happy to ditch IE11. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Does that mean PatternFly Next will use CSS variables instead of >>>>>>>>> preprocessor variables? Eliminating the preprocessor will make me >>>>>>>>> double >>>>>>>>> happy! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For our app we want to allow an administrator to do simple theme >>>>>>>>> changes from the admin console. This gets really easy to implement >>>>>>>>> if the >>>>>>>>> app doesn't need preprocessing. If we have to use a preprocessor >>>>>>>>> then it >>>>>>>>> becomes extremely complicated. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Stan >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 5/16/2018 4:55 PM, Leslie Hinson wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hey Fliers >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> At the last PatternFly Next update, the topic of IE11 browser >>>>>>>>> support came up. Specifically, the question on whether or not we >>>>>>>>> needed to >>>>>>>>> support it moving forward. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As a result, we wanted to follow up to ensure we understood >>>>>>>>> PatternFly users' browser support roadmap. From what we've been able >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> gather, we learned that the majority of PatternFly users that are >>>>>>>>> interested in migrating to PatternFly-Next are comfortable proceeding >>>>>>>>> without IE11 support moving forward. We will continue to have PF3 for >>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>> users that still require that level of support, however we don't >>>>>>>>> believe >>>>>>>>> that IE11 support is worth the cost for this next major version. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks to everyone that raised this concern as well as those that >>>>>>>>> provided input to help us make this decision. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Leslie Hinson >>>>>>>>> PatternFly Lead, UXD >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> PatternFly mailing >>>>>>>>> [email protected]https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> PatternFly mailing list >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> PatternFly mailing list >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/patternfly >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Guillaume Vincent >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Senior FrontEnd Engineer >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> <https://red.ht/sig> >>>>>>> TRIED. TESTED. TRUSTED. <https://redhat.com/trusted> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > -- Guillaume Vincent Senior FrontEnd Engineer [email protected] <https://red.ht/sig> TRIED. TESTED. TRUSTED. <https://redhat.com/trusted>
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