OK if you don't think there is a double standard then stand in front of your average lending library in AnyTown USA and tell each person coming out with a book that they will have to spend three bills of their paycheck (or tax dollars) to be able to read that book and watch their reaction. Still no double standard?
-----Original Message----- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 1:27 PM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing I don't agree. Someone else on this list talked about the more famous RIAA law suits, and to my knowledge none of these were directed against blind individuals. I'm not aware of a single case where the NLS went after a blind patron. Copy protection schemes implemented by Sony, Apple, Audible and so on are not directed at the blind. Apple, Audible and Overdrive content are all restricted to a certain set of players, or used to be, and again this has nothing to do with the blind. I don't think there's a double standard here. I won't even go near the recliner analogy. -- Christopher chalt...@gmail.com On 4/19/2010 12:17 PM, Frank Ventura wrote: > What I meant (in case there is any confusion) is that a sighted person > can break copyright law just as easily as a blind person but they don't > face the same restrictions as blind people do. I thought I made that > quite clear. Again I go back to the Lazyboy recliner analogy. A sighted > lending library does not tell its patrons how they may read their > borrowed material but BARD does go that extra step with blind people > with its for profit players. The secondary and maybe far worse effect of > this double standard is that it makes blind people appear as if we are > more prone to piracy then the general public. > > -----Original Message----- > From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org > [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Robert doc Wright > Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 11:02 AM > To: PC Audio Discussion List > Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing > > Here are your words frank: > frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com> > To: "PC Audio Discussion List"< > pc-audio@pc-audio.org> > Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 7:42 AM > Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing > > >> You can just as easily go to your local library and photocopy a book, >> dub a audio tape or copy an overdrive book. Does the government think >> blind folks are more predispositioned to piracy than ordinary folks, >> that we need such extreme measures that the rest of our culture does >> not? >> > What did you mean by this? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frank Ventura"<frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com> > To: "PC Audio Discussion List"<pc-audio@pc-audio.org> > Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 8:05 AM > Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing > > > >> Chris, I wasn't even suggesting that the local lending library would >> allow you to make copies of any of their material, of course they >> > would > >> not and should not. My point was that local lending libraries make >> material available to the public that is just as easily pirated as >> > BARD > >> but they don't shoehorn patrons into supporting the for profit >> > business > >> of mandatory players. That would be like going to my local lending >> library and checking out a book and have them tell me that I can only >> read it while sitting in a a LazyBoy Recliner, not another brand. But, >> of course if I can't afford it, us as tax payers, would be glad to fit >> the bill for that LazyBoy. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org >> [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher >> > Chaltain > >> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:24 AM >> To: PC Audio Discussion List >> Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing >> >> No, but the library won't let you make copies of that book and give >> > them > >> away or sell them to others. The copy protection scheme with BARD >> > books > >> is intended to keep these books from getting into the general public >> > and > >> impacting the sales of audio books. This kind of protection is >> > necessary > >> in order to ensure cooperation with the publishers. I think the >> > attitude > >> of some on this list that once they have an MP3 in their possession >> they're able to do with it whatever they want demonstrates why the NLS >> > >> and other companies and agencies need to take such action. >> >> Although I'm sure the vendor manufacturing the players is doing it for >> > a > >> profit, I'm not sure how you know they're making tons of money >> > (whatever > >> that means). I also have no ideas what insentives you're talking >> > about. > >> If you're implying that kickbacks are involved then that's illegal and >> > >> you should report that. I also don't see how the 3rd party players are >> > >> raking in the dough from this, unless by providing this feature >> > they're > >> boosting their sales. I don't see anything wrong with that by the way. >> >> >> Christopher >> chalt...@gmail.com >> >> >> On 4/19/2010 8:10 AM, Frank Ventura wrote: >> >>> If I walk into my local public library and check out a book the >>> librarian doesn't tell me which room in my house I can or cannot read >>> the book in. However with BARD they restrict qualified persons as to >>> which player the must use. The government is buying tons of those new >>> digital players and someone is making tons of money building and >>> >> selling >> >>> them to the government and someone in said government is receiving >>> "incentives" to continue this practice? So does anyone not think it >>> > is > >>> all about money? >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org >>> [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth >>> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 12:01 PM >>> To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' >>> Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing >>> >>> BARD is under the misguided impression that, even after you download >>> your >>> copy of a particular book, BARD still owns that copy. You have no >>> >> legal >> >>> authority to do anything, considered legal or otherwise, with that >>> >> copy. >> >>> Not >>> only is that incorrect, but it's also even more restrictive than even >>> the >>> most literally interpreted copyright law. Again, I'll use my example >>> >> of >> >>> iTunes. You pay for a couple songs from iTunjes. They're now yours. >>> Apple no >>> longer owns those copies. You can put them on your iWhatever, burn >>> >> them >> >>> to a >>> CD, do pretty much whatever you want with them. Not true with BARD. >>> >> And >> >>> it's >>> business models like that that convince people to do things you would >>> call >>> stealing. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org >>> [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] >>> On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell >>> Sent: April 18, 2010 11:51 AM >>> To: PC Audio Discussion List >>> Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing >>> >>> but from Bard, which was your example, you don't have permission. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "mitchell"<mitchellgre...@gmail.com> >>> To: "'PC Audio Discussion List'"<pc-audio@pc-audio.org> >>> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:43 AM >>> Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> That's absulootly rite, but after you qualify for the servis, and >>>> >> down >> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>>> load >>>> the file you still don't return it so if this all rite then how is >>>> >> tom >> >>>> >>>> >>> or >>> >>> >>>> anyone who has someone's pramition to coppy a fyle then how is it >>>> steeling? >>>> Mitchell >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org >>>> >>>> >>> [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] >>> >>> >>>> On Behalf Of James Homuth >>>> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:37 AM >>>> To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' >>>> Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing >>>> >>>> Apple tried to do the exact same thing with their iTunes. They tried >>>> limitting exactly what type of player you could put their music etc >>>> >> on >> >>>> >>>> >>> in >>> >>> >>>> the same way BARD is. The reasons that didn't work are the exact >>>> > same > >>>> reasons BARD shouldn't be doing that either. If you get your hands >>>> > on > >>>> something, whether you have legal access to do so or not, you're >>>> >> going >> >>>> >>>> >>> to >>> >>> >>>> want to do whatever you want with that something. Either put it on a >>>> >>>> >>> CD, >>> >>> >>>> or >>>> copy it to something smaller than your Victor Reader, or any number >>>> >> of >> >>>> things. And if someone wants to burn that book to a CD, or do >>>> >>>> >>> something >>> >>> >>>> else >>>> with it that BARD has decided they're not allowed to, even though >>>> >> they >> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>>> have >>>> legal access to it, people are just going to find less legal means >>>> > to > >>>> >>>> >>> do >>> >>> >>>> so. >>>> Rather than prop up and defend an out of date business model, people >>>> should >>>> be pushing companies like BARD to get caught up with the rest of the >>>> >>>> >>> world >>> >>> >>>> and actually give people a choice as to what to do with their >>>> acquisitions. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org >>>> >>>> >>> [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] >>> >>> >>>> On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell >>>> Sent: April 18, 2010 11:28 AM >>>> To: PC Audio Discussion List >>>> Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing >>>> >>>> But with Bard, you're not permitted to share and you have to qualify >>>> >>>> >>> for >>> >>> >>>> their service by being blind and having a player that they >>>> > authroize. > >>>> There >>>> is a specific exception in the copyright law for Bard and Bookshare >>>> >>>> >>> type >>> >>> >>>> services. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "mitchell"<mitchellgre...@gmail.com> >>>> To: "'PC Audio Discussion List'"<pc-audio@pc-audio.org> >>>> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:17 AM >>>> Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> I'm with you man, if it is steeling then why is it all rite to use >>>>> bard with the book players, because you are downloading the books. >>>>> Then you are not giving them back. Not a problem as far as I am >>>>> concerned. >>>>> Mitchell >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org >>>>> [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] >>>>> On Behalf Of DJ DOCTOR P >>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>> To: PC Audio Discussion List >>>>> Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing >>>>> >>>>> Ok, so you say, "it's still stealing." >>>>> Then you tell me, why are there still some websites that lets you >>>>> download music and audio books without having to pay anything for >>>>> >> it? >> >>>>> Yes these sites still exist, and people are downloading music and >>>>> audio books without having to pay a dime for it. >>>>> Explain that one to me, if you can! >>>>> John. >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Tom"<t...@pc-audio.org> >>>>> To:<pc-audio@pc-audio.org> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 6:49 AM >>>>> Subject: It's Still Stealing >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> It's still stealing whether or not your boss gives you permission >>>>>> >> to >> >>>>>> copy it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> >>>>>> ** Message From: DJ DOCTOR P ** >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> High Tom, >>>>>>> I don't do it unless my boss gives me the green light to >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> do it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> If he says yes, then I do it. >>>>>>> But if he says no, then it doesn't happen. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: >> pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org >> >> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: >> pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org >> >> > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: > pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: > pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
