amen -----Original Message----- From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of David Tanner Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 8:49 PM To: PC Audio Discussion List Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing
Modirator, Hasen't this thread about gone far enough off topic for you to ask that it be discontinued? It seems that is all that is being discussed on the list the last few days. Please do something about limiting or ending this on-going, never ending debate. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Ventura" <frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com> To: "PC Audio Discussion List" <pc-audio@pc-audio.org> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 12:31 PM Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing > OK if you don't think there is a double standard then stand in front of > your average lending library in AnyTown USA and tell each person coming > out with a book that they will have to spend three bills of their > paycheck (or tax dollars) to be able to read that book and watch their > reaction. Still no double standard? > > -----Original Message----- > From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org > [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain > Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 1:27 PM > To: PC Audio Discussion List > Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing > > I don't agree. Someone else on this list talked about the more famous > RIAA law suits, and to my knowledge none of these were directed against > blind individuals. I'm not aware of a single case where the NLS went > after a blind patron. Copy protection schemes implemented by Sony, > Apple, Audible and so on are not directed at the blind. Apple, Audible > and Overdrive content are all restricted to a certain set of players, or > > used to be, and again this has nothing to do with the blind. I don't > think there's a double standard here. > > I won't even go near the recliner analogy. > > -- > > Christopher > chalt...@gmail.com > > > On 4/19/2010 12:17 PM, Frank Ventura wrote: >> What I meant (in case there is any confusion) is that a sighted person >> can break copyright law just as easily as a blind person but they > don't >> face the same restrictions as blind people do. I thought I made that >> quite clear. Again I go back to the Lazyboy recliner analogy. A > sighted >> lending library does not tell its patrons how they may read their >> borrowed material but BARD does go that extra step with blind people >> with its for profit players. The secondary and maybe far worse effect > of >> this double standard is that it makes blind people appear as if we are >> more prone to piracy then the general public. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org >> [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Robert doc Wright >> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 11:02 AM >> To: PC Audio Discussion List >> Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing >> >> Here are your words frank: >> frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com> >> To: "PC Audio Discussion List"< >> pc-audio@pc-audio.org> >> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 7:42 AM >> Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing >> >> >>> You can just as easily go to your local library and photocopy a book, >>> dub a audio tape or copy an overdrive book. Does the government think >>> blind folks are more predispositioned to piracy than ordinary folks, >>> that we need such extreme measures that the rest of our culture does >>> not? >>> >> What did you mean by this? >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Frank Ventura"<frank.vent...@littlebreezes.com> >> To: "PC Audio Discussion List"<pc-audio@pc-audio.org> >> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 8:05 AM >> Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing >> >> >> >>> Chris, I wasn't even suggesting that the local lending library would >>> allow you to make copies of any of their material, of course they >>> >> would >> >>> not and should not. My point was that local lending libraries make >>> material available to the public that is just as easily pirated as >>> >> BARD >> >>> but they don't shoehorn patrons into supporting the for profit >>> >> business >> >>> of mandatory players. That would be like going to my local lending >>> library and checking out a book and have them tell me that I can only >>> read it while sitting in a a LazyBoy Recliner, not another brand. > But, >>> of course if I can't afford it, us as tax payers, would be glad to > fit >>> the bill for that LazyBoy. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org >>> [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Christopher >>> >> Chaltain >> >>> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:24 AM >>> To: PC Audio Discussion List >>> Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing >>> >>> No, but the library won't let you make copies of that book and give >>> >> them >> >>> away or sell them to others. The copy protection scheme with BARD >>> >> books >> >>> is intended to keep these books from getting into the general public >>> >> and >> >>> impacting the sales of audio books. This kind of protection is >>> >> necessary >> >>> in order to ensure cooperation with the publishers. I think the >>> >> attitude >> >>> of some on this list that once they have an MP3 in their possession >>> they're able to do with it whatever they want demonstrates why the > NLS >>> >> >>> and other companies and agencies need to take such action. >>> >>> Although I'm sure the vendor manufacturing the players is doing it > for >>> >> a >> >>> profit, I'm not sure how you know they're making tons of money >>> >> (whatever >> >>> that means). I also have no ideas what insentives you're talking >>> >> about. >> >>> If you're implying that kickbacks are involved then that's illegal > and >>> >> >>> you should report that. I also don't see how the 3rd party players > are >>> >> >>> raking in the dough from this, unless by providing this feature >>> >> they're >> >>> boosting their sales. I don't see anything wrong with that by the > way. >>> >>> >>> Christopher >>> chalt...@gmail.com >>> >>> >>> On 4/19/2010 8:10 AM, Frank Ventura wrote: >>> >>>> If I walk into my local public library and check out a book the >>>> librarian doesn't tell me which room in my house I can or cannot > read >>>> the book in. However with BARD they restrict qualified persons as to >>>> which player the must use. The government is buying tons of those > new >>>> digital players and someone is making tons of money building and >>>> >>> selling >>> >>>> them to the government and someone in said government is receiving >>>> "incentives" to continue this practice? So does anyone not think it >>>> >> is >> >>>> all about money? >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org >>>> [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of James Homuth >>>> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 12:01 PM >>>> To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' >>>> Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing >>>> >>>> BARD is under the misguided impression that, even after you download >>>> your >>>> copy of a particular book, BARD still owns that copy. You have no >>>> >>> legal >>> >>>> authority to do anything, considered legal or otherwise, with that >>>> >>> copy. >>> >>>> Not >>>> only is that incorrect, but it's also even more restrictive than > even >>>> the >>>> most literally interpreted copyright law. Again, I'll use my example >>>> >>> of >>> >>>> iTunes. You pay for a couple songs from iTunjes. They're now yours. >>>> Apple no >>>> longer owns those copies. You can put them on your iWhatever, burn >>>> >>> them >>> >>>> to a >>>> CD, do pretty much whatever you want with them. Not true with BARD. >>>> >>> And >>> >>>> it's >>>> business models like that that convince people to do things you > would >>>> call >>>> stealing. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org >>>> [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] >>>> On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell >>>> Sent: April 18, 2010 11:51 AM >>>> To: PC Audio Discussion List >>>> Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing >>>> >>>> but from Bard, which was your example, you don't have permission. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "mitchell"<mitchellgre...@gmail.com> >>>> To: "'PC Audio Discussion List'"<pc-audio@pc-audio.org> >>>> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:43 AM >>>> Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> That's absulootly rite, but after you qualify for the servis, and >>>>> >>> down >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> load >>>>> the file you still don't return it so if this all rite then how is >>>>> >>> tom >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> or >>>> >>>> >>>>> anyone who has someone's pramition to coppy a fyle then how is it >>>>> steeling? >>>>> Mitchell >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>> [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Behalf Of James Homuth >>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:37 AM >>>>> To: 'PC Audio Discussion List' >>>>> Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing >>>>> >>>>> Apple tried to do the exact same thing with their iTunes. They > tried >>>>> limitting exactly what type of player you could put their music etc >>>>> >>> on >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> in >>>> >>>> >>>>> the same way BARD is. The reasons that didn't work are the exact >>>>> >> same >> >>>>> reasons BARD shouldn't be doing that either. If you get your hands >>>>> >> on >> >>>>> something, whether you have legal access to do so or not, you're >>>>> >>> going >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> to >>>> >>>> >>>>> want to do whatever you want with that something. Either put it on > a >>>>> >>>>> >>>> CD, >>>> >>>> >>>>> or >>>>> copy it to something smaller than your Victor Reader, or any number >>>>> >>> of >>> >>>>> things. And if someone wants to burn that book to a CD, or do >>>>> >>>>> >>>> something >>>> >>>> >>>>> else >>>>> with it that BARD has decided they're not allowed to, even though >>>>> >>> they >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> have >>>>> legal access to it, people are just going to find less legal means >>>>> >> to >> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> do >>>> >>>> >>>>> so. >>>>> Rather than prop up and defend an out of date business model, > people >>>>> should >>>>> be pushing companies like BARD to get caught up with the rest of > the >>>>> >>>>> >>>> world >>>> >>>> >>>>> and actually give people a choice as to what to do with their >>>>> acquisitions. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>> [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Behalf Of Ford Blackwell >>>>> Sent: April 18, 2010 11:28 AM >>>>> To: PC Audio Discussion List >>>>> Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing >>>>> >>>>> But with Bard, you're not permitted to share and you have to > qualify >>>>> >>>>> >>>> for >>>> >>>> >>>>> their service by being blind and having a player that they >>>>> >> authroize. >> >>>>> There >>>>> is a specific exception in the copyright law for Bard and Bookshare >>>>> >>>>> >>>> type >>>> >>>> >>>>> services. >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "mitchell"<mitchellgre...@gmail.com> >>>>> To: "'PC Audio Discussion List'"<pc-audio@pc-audio.org> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:17 AM >>>>> Subject: RE: It's Still Stealing >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I'm with you man, if it is steeling then why is it all rite to use >>>>>> bard with the book players, because you are downloading the books. >>>>>> Then you are not giving them back. Not a problem as far as I am >>>>>> concerned. >>>>>> Mitchell >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org >>>>>> [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] >>>>>> On Behalf Of DJ DOCTOR P >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 8:09 AM >>>>>> To: PC Audio Discussion List >>>>>> Subject: Re: It's Still Stealing >>>>>> >>>>>> Ok, so you say, "it's still stealing." >>>>>> Then you tell me, why are there still some websites that lets you >>>>>> download music and audio books without having to pay anything for >>>>>> >>> it? >>> >>>>>> Yes these sites still exist, and people are downloading music and >>>>>> audio books without having to pay a dime for it. >>>>>> Explain that one to me, if you can! >>>>>> John. >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Tom"<t...@pc-audio.org> >>>>>> To:<pc-audio@pc-audio.org> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 6:49 AM >>>>>> Subject: It's Still Stealing >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> It's still stealing whether or not your boss gives you permission >>>>>>> >>> to >>> >>>>>>> copy it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ** Message From: DJ DOCTOR P ** >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> High Tom, >>>>>>>> I don't do it unless my boss gives me the green light to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> do it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If he says yes, then I do it. >>>>>>>> But if he says no, then it doesn't happen. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> >>> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: >>> pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: >>> pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org >>> >>> >> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: >> pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org >> >> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: >> pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org >> > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: > pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: > pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: pc-audio-unsubscr...@pc-audio.org
