Edwina, Do you consider that the universe includes chance events, or are all events tests of abductions?
SxS On Dec 16, 2020, at 5:05 PM, Edwina Taborsky <tabor...@primus.ca<mailto:tabor...@primus.ca>> wrote: CAUTION: This email originated from outside of our organization. Do not click links, open attachments, or respond unless you recognize the sender's email address and know the contents are safe. Steven - yes, I consider that the universe reasons - and I do consider, therefore, that abduction, as a reasoning process, does indeed happen in 'sub-elements' [what on earth does that mean and imply???] - in birds and bills. And yes, the universe is, in my view, an inference, which is to say, a 'thinking' system [most certainly NOT a machine] - and this view is hardly unique to me - but held among many who view the universe as a self-organized complex-adaptive-system. Edwina On Wed 16/12/20 9:48 PM , "Skaggs,Steven" s.ska...@louisville.edu<mailto:s.ska...@louisville.edu> sent: Edwina, Thanks for the response, but whether or not one believes that the whole system (cosmos) reasons, there would be no evolutionary abduction happening in sub-elements such as the birds and their bills. And if you make the cosmos an inference machine, then you certainly paint yourself into an extreme position, one that cannot be tested. SxS — On Dec 16, 2020, at 2:49 PM, Edwina Taborsky <tabor...@primus.ca<javascript:top.opencompose('tabor...@primus.ca','','','')>> wrote: CAUTION: This email originated from outside of our organization. Do not click links, open attachments, or respond unless you recognize the sender's email address and know the contents are safe. Steven - thanks for your comments. Yes, abduction is the suggestion of a hypothesis to explain a set of observations. Your examples are obviously set up as deductive, inductive, abductive, but, these are purely intellectual exercises. You are ignoring that the natural world also reasons - and since you are new here, I'll repeat, for the zillionth time, a key selection from Peirce. 4.551: "Thought is not necessarily connected with a brain. It appears in the work of bees, of crystals and throughout the purely physical world". Therefore - the development by a finch species, in the biological world, of a beak capable of dealing with the new harder shells of seeds - is a result of MIND, of thought - and, an action of abduction. Edwina On Wed 16/12/20 7:14 PM , "Skaggs,Steven" s.ska...@louisville.edu<javascript:top.opencompose('s.ska...@louisville.edu','','','')> sent: Edwina and Helmut, I have only recently joined the Peirce List and find this interesting thread. Excuse me putting in a word into your conversation about abduction — especially as it concerns how far the concept might be stretched. Abduction is a hunch, an hypothesis. It focuses a set of tests, or it is a tentative, suggested solution to a problem, a reaching out and grasping at a potentially successful explanation. It is a Case in search of a Paradigm. An example with beans. 1) I’m a beanologist: I know what beans are. I’ve never seen a blue one before, but here is something in front of me that has a bean structure but is blue. Note that as a beanologist I hold the color to be an accidental trait of beans, and structure to be essential. So I deduce without doubt that the object in front of me is a bean. 2) I’m not a beanologist: I have seen a lot of things in my lifetime called beans, but none of them have ever been blue. This object in front of me is like a bean (similarity) but also unlike a bean (it is blue). Using inductive reasoning, I expand my sense of bean-ness to include blue beans. 3) I’m a gourmand chef and I love beans. In the market I am confronted by an unlabeled bin full of objects that look somewhat beanlike but do not smell or taste like beans I’ve had — and they’re blue. I abduce that they are a new food item grown only locally and I name them “Bleans”, take them back to New York and make a fortune at my restaurant! I will say that taking the development of a thicker bill to crack seeds is stretching my notion of abduction. Steven S. On Dec 16, 2020, at 11:18 AM, Helmut Raulien <h.raul...@gmx.de> wrote: CAUTION: This email originated from outside of our organization. Do not click links, open attachments, or respond unless you recognize the sender's email address and know the contents are safe. Edwina, I think this view (intelligent response, informed interacton) is called Lamarckism, has been refuted for a long time by Darwinism, but is since shortly restored in a weak form with the discovery of epigenetics. With "perceived similarity" I meant a knowledge about similarity or identity of a thing that surprises, and another thing or class of things known. For example, in Peirces example, the similarity expressed with the name "beans" between the seen white beans, and the beans known to be in the bag. Best, Helmut 15. Dezember 2020 um 21:47 Uhr "Edwina Taborsky" <tabor...@primus.ca> Helmut - No, the beak is a NEW form, not the old form of the beak, and it developed in 'intelligent' response to the NEW harder seed shell. This is novelty; this is abduction. Yes, mutations [new forms] are the results of abduction. And mutations are not necessarily random, but can be the new form developed as a result of 'informed interaction' by the organism with the environment. I don't understand what you mean by 'perceived similarity' with regard to abduction. Please remember that Peirce understood 'Mind' as operating within all of the Universe, both the inorganic and organic - and most certainly not confined to human beings. Edwina On Tue 15/12/20 3:20 PM , Helmut Raulien h.raul...@gmx.de sent: Edwina, ok, thoug I would say, the strengthening of the beak might also be seen as a kind of induction, because both the seed shell, and the beak have been there before, so there is no complete novelty nor total surprise. Maybe mutations are part of abduction? Though abduction might be seen as a guess with a reason, a hypothesis based on a real perceived similarity, while a mutation is rather a wild guess without a hypothesis? If in a forest there surprisingly occur carnivores that live on the ground, and a squirrel has due to a mutation a skin between its arms and legs, so it can glide from one tree to the other without going to the ground, it has an advantage. But the mutation is random. But maybe on a slow evolutuionary scale this might be interpreted as hypothesis? Or would such an interpretation be anthropo- or neurocentrism? Best, Helmut 14. Dezember 2020 um 21:12 Uhr "Edwina Taborsky" wrote: Helmut - the point of abduction is the appearance of a novel situation - and the adjustment by an organism to that novelty by its development of a new hypothesis or law. The organism - and I maintain this can be a plant, a cell, an insect, a human...interacting with the environment, receives input data that is novel to its system.[surprising fact is observed]. So- it adapts; it develops a new set of habits[ new hypothesis] such that it can continue to live in that environment with that novel situation. So- a bird adapts to new seeds that have developed harder shells by itself developing a harder beak. I don't see that abduction means an 'awareness of resemblance'. Edwina On Mon 14/12/20 2:46 PM , Helmut Raulien h.raul...@gmx.de sent: Supplement: Abduction means, that something is recognized (truly or falsely doesnt matter) as seeming like something other. That is depiction or awareness of resemblance. Please give me one example, in which this occurs besides the action of a neuronic network. Edwina, I seem to not come through. I dont know, chance is something quite trivial for me, and abduction something more complex. To mentally abduct something means to copy it. Chance is just incertainty. Incertainty occurs in the physicochemical realm, but the ability of copying something reqires neurons. I dont know what is wrong with that. Sorry, best, Helmut 14. Dezember 2020 um 20:08 Uhr "Edwina Taborsky" wrote: Helmut - we'll just have to disagree! I consider that chance is a basic attribute of abduction, where an aberration from the norm appears, and the Mind [and I consider that all matter including the inorganic, functions within Mind] - can develop a new habit that incorporates this aberration as 'normal'. This has nothing to do with uncertainty. And nothing to do with 'need' [whatever that means]. I don't see induction as requiring final causality. I see induction merely as pure observation of 'what is existent'. Nothing to do with any 'need'. Edwina On Mon 14/12/20 1:55 PM , Helmut Raulien h.raul...@gmx.de sent: Edwina, I agree, that in inanimate world there is chance, due to the Heisenberg incertainty and to incertainty as calculated by chaos theory. But I doubt, that this has to do with induction or abduction, or with final or example causation. I think, that final causation (or induction) requires a need, which is something only organisms have. No stone or molecule needs anything. Abduction, example cause, requires a structure that can recognize or copy a pattern. This is only doable with a network of neurons, or maybe with a single neuron, or two of them, I dont know, but anyway with neurons, is what I think. Best, Helmut 14. Dezember 2020 um 19:39 Uhr "Edwina Taborsky" wrote: Helmut - you are ignoring the role of Firstness, or chance, within the inanimate and animate world. Chance, spontaneity are vital actions enabling adaptive and evolutionary capacities - and these two actions are obviously not found only within the human realm. But also within the 'inanimate' and 'animate'. I'd say that abduction is the Mind process of Firstness - and found in all forms of existence. Edwina On Mon 14/12/20 1:29 PM , Helmut Raulien h.raul...@gmx.de sent: List, I have to ponder your posts, because up to now my idea has been, that in inanimate nature merely deduction/efficient causation occurs, in animate nature (organisms) also induction/final causation, and in neuro-nature (brain animals) also abduction/example causation. To suggest that a molecule does abduction, would in my concept be illegitimate anthropocentrism. But all that is just my ideas, you know I have some of them, maybe all wrong. Best, Helmut 14. Dezember 2020 um 18:23 Uhr "Jerry LR Chandler" wrote: List: I am uncertain as to the semantic, syntactical, formal and CSP textual sources of meanings of the term “ampliative” as used in these two sentences. On Dec 14, 2020, at 8:46 AM, g...@gnusystems.ca wrote: In logical terms, the key is that excluded middle is a principle only of deductive reasoning, not of ampliative reasoning, which always comes first in any inquiry ; Jon had written: "That is why it is ampliative rather than merely explicative, with the tradeoff that its inferences are merely plausible rather than certain." Note that ampliative reasoning can be used to infer the necessary connections between atoms and molecules as many to one mappings from parts to the wholes. That is, for a collection of atoms to become a single molecule, it is necessary that new relations must be specified that show the differences between the individuals and the collective, the emergent whole with a new name that specifies its uniqueness. In other words, what is being “ampliated" in this usage of the term “ampliative”? (I vaguely recall reading a CSP passage that used the term but can not locate it now.) Secondly, why is the form of term such a radical departure from the common form of terminology of logics, such as abductive, adductive, deductive, inductive, productive, retroductive, (synductive), and transductive. (The term “synductive” was coined in my 2008 paper to enumerate the logic of forming a whole from atomic parts by matching all parts to another to form the molecular network, that is, the pattern of relations that quantifies the relationships between the qualisigns and the legisigns of sin-signs.) Cheers Jerry _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu<javascript:top.opencompose('peirce-L@list.iupui.edu','','','')> . ► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu<javascript:top.opencompose('l...@list.iupui.edu','','','')> with no subject, and with the sole line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. 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