Mike, list

I think the second paper is showing us how induction can expand the perimeters 
of explanation within an already existent hypothesis [ understanding the term 
‘hypothesis’ to mean a particular Form of existence]. For example - an 
expansion that 
"led to the discovery of 75 previously unknown connections between constants”

As to abduction, which to my understanding, is the creation [ self organized or 
other organized] of an entirely novel Form - that’s a different action in my 
view.  That is, if we understand an hypothesis to be a FORM, ie, a stable 
pattern of organization of matter and/or concepts….then, how readily does such 
an event take place? 

I can think of several intellectual abductive actions - ie - the discovery that 
various diseases were not caused by evil humours or..but due to the presence of 
microorganisms - bacterial cells.  This was enabled by technological advances [ 
microscopes etc]. Discovery of DNA. Develoopment of agriculture.  
Constitutional democracy as a mode of governance - which is dependent on 
population size]...

What about, in the natural world, the emergence of an entirely new Form [ 
habit]? It does happen - via a reactive adaptation to environmental pressures, 
isolation of the host population…and I’d say it’s more a process of adaptation 
of an existent FORM [ elephants  without tusks] than emergence of an entirely 
new FORM, for such would be destabilizing in the ecological network. .. and in 
the less complex realms of chemistry - would be too destabilizing [ a new atom? 
A new molecule}

Man-made abductive changes in the natural world? Covid, for example, was not a 
natural development, but, due to the gain-of-function development in a human 
laboratory,to change the infrastructure of the virus. 

Edwina

> On Dec 19, 2024, at 2:00 AM, Mike Bergman <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> When I initially responded to this thread I knew it had the prospect for 
> lengthy to-and-fro, so I silently told myself I would say my piece and then 
> hold my tongue.
> 
> But I can't resist on two levels. The first is to understand abduction in 
> Peircean terms. The second is to comment critically on the actual 
> capabilities of current AI systems (and to make sure we distinguish LLMs and 
> chatbots from other more dedicated AI systems, which are broader in toto). 
> Cosmically, two new papers came out in the past day that speak to both of 
> these topics. Their appearance convinced me I should release my tongue.
> 
> I find Peirce's concept of abduction (which I prefer to retroduction, another 
> argument) to be more subtle and precise and embracing than standard uses. My 
> understanding of Peirce's concept of abduction has two complementary aspects. 
> The first, based on the newly encountered, surprising fact, is to span the 
> possible problem and solution 'space' to begin formulating possible 
> explanations or hypotheses. The second, given the inexhaustible scope of the 
> possible solution space, is to winnow possible testable approaches to the 
> open question based on pragmatic prospects of likely rewards at acceptable 
> investigation costs. It is a beautiful, yet difficult to operationalize, 
> design. I think this aligns with Edwina's basic understanding, as well.
> 
> In the general literature, I find the general use of 'hypothesis' and 
> 'abductive reasoning' to not conform to these subtleties. LLMs are inductive 
> in their approaches, that conjure up hypothesis largely based on priors, but 
> one can also prompt with new hypotheses and work interactively to explore new 
> territory. That is the research assistant-mode I mentioned previously.
> 
> So, the first paper from today [1] really gets at this general topic. I think 
> it pretty well speaks to the lack of innovative, 'new' hypotheses arising 
> from current LLMs. The hypotheses offered by LLMs are generally priors. Also, 
> please note there are AI capabilities from outfits like DeepMind and their 
> protein folding that work on different bases than chatbots. There are some 
> new hypothesis-generating capabilities in AI, but these approaches (to my 
> knowledge) are not yet incorporated into LLMs.
> 
> The second paper that came out today [2] begins to show a glimmer of 
> approaches that might get closer to a Peircean understanding of abduction. 
> This paper [2] embraces the two main concepts: first, a way to create a 
> representation of the general problem space (a lattice in this instance); and 
> then, second, a way to use an ROI-like approach to scan the possible solution 
> space. This paper is very mathematically and constant (also using precision) 
> inclined one, but the general idea is something that could be adopted to 
> imprecise text and LLMs perhaps. Or, possibly, a Peircean abduction would 
> require even other approaches . . . .
> 
> My own conclusion is that using LLMs as human-in-the-loop research assistants 
> is the current, most productive way to use AI for Peircean-related questions 
> and investigations. They do not innovate new solutions without the 
> interpretant (human) prompting the right questions and premises, but may 
> surface previously unforeseen connections that the human might use to 
> formulate new hypotheses. One good thing: ChatGPT or whatever never gets 
> tired!
> 
> I will again try to hold my tongue.
> 
> Best, Mike
> 
> [1] https://arxiv.org/pdf/2412.13645
> [2] http://arxiv.org/abs/2412.12361
> 
> 
> On 12/18/2024 3:19 PM, Edwina Taborsky wrote:
>> 
>> Gary R, Mike, Tuezuen, Frederik, 
>> 
>> I remain unconvinced that AI has any capacity for abduction. As I outlined 
>> in a previous post, I consider that induction [ Secondness] and Deduction ] 
>> Thirdness, are its strengths. Abduction, [Firstness] is, I feel outside of 
>> its range.  I outlined my reasoning and won’t repeat it ..
>> 
>> I think that the massive and rapid inductive capacities of AI enable it to 
>> expand the range of a hypothesis, which could indeed, suggest the inclusion 
>> of observed facts within a hypothesis. Abduction, to my understanding, is 
>> without a hypothesis and is focused on choosing one.. 
>> 
>> As Peirce points out [7.218, 1902] abduction operates by resemblance [ which 
>> I would define as Firstness] while induction operates by contiguity [ 
>> Secondness].
>> 
>> Or  “the invention, selection and entertainment of the hypothesis’ HP 2.895. 
>> 1901
>> 
>> Therefore, I continue to think that AI is extremely useful in inductive 
>> exploration - with the capacity to organize and critique data within 
>> existent hypotheses [ and thus, expand the function of these hypotheses]. 
>> 
>> But - since it is operative in Firstness, ‘guessing’, I don’t see it as 
>> having the capacity for abduction, ie, the creation of totally novel 
>> hypotheses or Forms or Habits.. An example - the development of a totally 
>> new beak in a finch ; the emergence of a new species. [genetic mutation 
>> etc]. 
>> 
>> Edwina
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 

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