Sorry, Gary, I haven’t been following this string closely enough. Is your point that the process of synthesis [or mediation] can’t, on a particular occasion, precede the components synthesized [mediated]? Because we do commonly start with the product of synthesis – which we also refer to as “the synthesis” – and proceed to the components synthesized (which is just analysis). Or are you saying that, for any arbitrarily selected triplet, it may or may not be the case, depending on the specific nature of the elements involved, that one or another can mediate the others?
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Jim, List, GR: So, finally, is a sign a First or a Third? It seems to me at this point in my reflection that it functions as both, transmuting itself as the sign grows in the continuation of a semiotic process. And began your message: . . . what you say in the above post seems corrrect to me in so far as my present understanding of this complex issue goes. Now, if we allow that even an object (if taken as part of triad of objects) can serve as a first or third I think we have come full circle and in some sense also merged with the position put forth by Jean-Marc. Could it be that Peirce's classifications of signs accommodates (my word for the day) both points of view? No, I reject Jean-Marc's
analysis for the most part for the reasons I offer below. Gary Richmond wrote: ...btw, do you or anyone else know of any other place where he refers to 'sign' as a third?) I know only of this one, which I think may illuminate the passage being considered in so far as Peirce notes that "in genuine Thirdness, the first, the second, and the third are all three of the nature of thirds." CP 1.537 Now in genuine Thirdness, the first, the second, and the third are all three of the nature of thirds, or thought, while in respect to one another they are first, second, and third.
while in respect to one another they are first, second, and third. 1ns, legisign (the sign
as sign is categorially first) JO: Take any of
these 3 things and they will mediate between the one (first) and the other
(second). There is a truth in this
is so far as in any genuine triadic relationship each of the three not only in
a sense (but not a categorial one) may mediate between the other two, but that
indeed it is in the nature of genuine triadic relationships that they necessarily do. Jean-Marc continues: JO: which one *is*
the first, which one *is* the second, which one *is* the third? Done above in the example
offered (see my trikonic slideshow and paper at Arisbe for many more
illustrations). JO: Now when a
first thing among the three is considered in itself (i.e as a First *within the
relation*), the second thing can then be considered as "other than"
the first (i.e. as a Second in opposition to the first thing *still
within the relation*), and the third thing is considered as mediating between
the first and the second, (i.e in its role as a Third). There you have both the
categories and the ordinals. It is not correct to
conclude as Jean-Marc does that " order has no importance." Let's
take the order Jean-Marc employs, what I've called the Hegelian order, but
which is also Peirce's order of something/other/medium. Can one start with
medium? Of course not! So even dialectic demands and precisely is this order 1st, thesis, 2nd antithesis,
3rd synthesis.Can one start with antithesis or synthesis? Of course not! Take any member of the relation, it will mediate between the other two. This has just been
disproved, again in his sense that "order has no importance" at this
level of analysis. CP 1.537 Now in genuine Thirdness, the first, the second, and the third are all three of the nature of thirds, or thought, while in respect to one another they are first, second, and third. Gary Message from peirce-l forum to subscriber archive@mail-archive.com |
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