There seems to be some doubt as to whether this message of mine actually made 
it through. If it did, apologies for resending it here from a new email address.

Dan Everett

On Mar 8, 2021, at 2:51 PM, Daniel L. Everett 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

On the role of triadic categories in Peirce’s philosophy and hierarchy, you 
might (if you haven’t already) want to check out some of the commentaries on 
Aristotle by the Conimbricenses, the Portuguese Jesuits of the 16th century 
(followed decades later by the important work of another Portuguese, Joao 
Poinsot). So far as I know it was here in their work (which Peirce knew well) 
that the first well developed triadic basis of semiotics is explicitly 
mentioned (there is an excellent translation of some of this work by John 
Doyle, which I am sure most of this list will be familar with).

In the 20th century, Kenneth Pike 
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Lee_Pike) developed a pre-Chomskyan 
theory of linguistics, Tagmemics 
(https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/9783111657158/html), that also 
had a foundational triadic structure. In PIke’s work hierarchy was also crucial 
and he developed theories of various linguistic hierarchies (the basic three 
were referential, phonological, grammatical). Pike’s work predates Simon’s 
considerably.


In his own work, mathematician-theologian Vern Poythress 
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vern_Poythress) argued that the basis of the 
triadic organization of Tagmemics and elsewhere was the trinity 
(https://www.amazon.com/Knowing-Trinity-Perspectives-Knowledge-Imitate/dp/1629953199/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=trinity+by+vern+poythress&qid=1615232590&sr=8-3)
 Poythress is a serious mathematician as well as a theologian and a solid 
linguist.

I am inclined to believe that the doctrine of trinity was important in the 
thinking of the Portuguese Jesuits and also for Peirce (though I currently have 
no textual support to make a serious claim wrt the latter suggestion).

Simon did win the Nobel Prize in Economics, but when I knew him at CMU (in 
conjunction with my role on the computational linguistics faculty of the 
Pitt-CMU program going at that time), he defined his long-term research program 
as human problem-solving, leading to computer science, psychology, and other 
fields, beyond economics. His work on the hierarchy can also be related to 
(though it is rarely, if ever, credited) the conception of all linguistics 
structure as endocentric and recursive that Chomsky has urged (and which I have 
long argued against).

In any case, I highly recommend the Jesuit Aristotelian commentaries and the 
work of Poinsot (Deely has recently published a beautiful version of his 
Tractatus).

Dan

On Mar 8, 2021, at 1:39 PM, Mike Bergman 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:


Hi All,

Given the number of questions regarding Peirce's universal categories in 
relation to my hierarchy paper, I have split out my response to them separately 
and have renamed the thread. I will follow up this thread with a separate 
thread on Bruce's 'twisted, closed loop' idea.

It is clear that Peirce's research and method of inquiry were based on what he 
proudly classed as an 'architectonic' [1]. For me, it is one of the most 
appealing aspects of Peirce since it reflects his commitment to applying 
consistent logic and methods in all intellectual endeavors. Pragmatism has 
perhaps survived as the most often-cited basis of Peirce's architectonic. I 
agree with this in the context of praxis, but I have suspected for many years 
that the root fount of Peirce's approach is in his triadism, what he himself 
jocularly called his 'triadomany' [2].

His universal categories are the root of the root. When last published [3], I 
had assembled up more than sixty instances where Peirce applied triadic splits; 
I have perhaps two dozen more needing a published update. All representations 
across these examples have a context to derive their meaning. Yet, still, there 
is a character across the categories of Firstness (1ns), Secondness (2ns) and 
Thirdness (3ns) that bring a unique feel and sense for each, generalizations 
emerging from the vague.

An author's release of my book chapter on Peirce's universal categories is 
available for free from my Web site [3]. Table 6-2 and its table notes, in 
particular, provide a flavor for how Perice's triadic categories were expressed 
by him in scores of examples. For example, in the case of 'reality', I would 
surmise Peirce to describe it as 'chance' (1ns), actuality (2ns), and 
'continuity' (3ns). More than 60 other examples and variants are provided in 
the table.

In the case for the KBpedia Knowledge 
Ontology<https://kbpedia.org/knowledge-graph/> (KKO), the context is 'knowledge 
representation'. That scope is close to being the same as 'everything there 
is', but the expression and organization need to be geared to logical 
constructs that are consistently used so as to be able to be reasoned over.

In the KKO context, the triadic structure is 'monads' (1ns), 'particulars' 
(2ns) and 'generals' (3ns). 'Monads' are the possible ideas or attributes about 
things, but they are unexpressed. I have also called monads 'unrealized 
building blocks'. They are pregnant with potential, but as monads are the pure 
qualities, not yet embodied.  Of course, once you try to represent or capture 
the idea of something like 'redness', you have given it expression so that it 
is no longer 1ns. Monads in the KKO context are best scoped as the unconnected 
relations between things and the unembodied attributes of things.

'Particulars' (2ns) are the events and entities relevant to the scope of the 
current domain. Every particular is individuated. How to categorize 
'attributes' into 'particulars', 'particulars' into 'generals', and 'generals' 
into more abstract 'generals' is the motivator for my paper on hierarchy.

'Generals' (3ns) are the types, classes, generalizations, abstractions, rules, 
laws and processes relating to the nature of reality and interactions. Thinking 
and continuity are 'generals'. Particulars are a predominant focus of 
generalizations. Because KBpedia is an interacting amalgam of typologies, aside 
from the 200 or so concepts in KKO, 58,000 of the remaining concepts are all 
organized under the KKO 'generals' branch. However, specific individuals in the 
knowledge graph may reference the KKO concepts under the 'particulars' branch, 
and reasoning may occur across attributes and predicates using the 'monads' 
branch. These latter two options are nascent in KBpedia, but have not yet been 
tested and demonstrated. Now that our first task to create a Peircean knowledge 
representation with KBpedia is usable, I hope (and welcome others!) to begin 
applying such tests.

I do not associate 1ns with 'matter, life and ideas' as Ravi may be implying. 
Rather, the associates I see are matter (2ns), life (2ns) and ideas (3ns). 
Monads do not have a position or representation in space. They are unexpressed, 
unembodied attributes or relations. Absolute chance and possibilities are 
'monads'.

While perhaps it has been useful for me to be the primary editor of KBpedia and 
interpreter of Peirce in relation to knowledge representation, I think more 
Peirce and knowledge representation afficiandos need to contribute. It would be 
fantastic to see knowledge graphs suitable for testing and refining computer 
programs in Peircean triadic logic and abductive logic, as examples.

At any rate, I hope this note or the paper reference [3] may help you 
understand my take on Peirce's universal categories.

Best, Mike

[1] http://www.commens.org/dictionary/term/triadomany
[2] Peirce, Charles Sanders. 1891. “The Architecture of Theories”. The Monist 
1, no. 2: 161–76. See https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/27896847.pdf
[3] https://www.mkbergman.com/publications/akrp/chapter-6.pdf

On 3/7/2021 1:34 PM, Ravi Sharma wrote:
Mike and Bruce

While coming from eastern (indian) philosophy and metaphysics based preliminary 
background, I would like to understand one of the three items above:
(I have to fully read Mike's ISKO paper which is modern, and also understand in 
this context Aristotle, Pierce and Sowa, category theory!)

  *   Monads
  *   Particulars
  *   Generals

and for example
I. Firstness [1ns] — these are possibilities or potentials, the basic forces or 
qualities that combine together or interact in various ways to enable the real 
things we perceive in the world, such as matter, life and ideas. These are the 
unrealized building blocks, or elements, the essences or attributes or possible 
juxtapositions. They are not divisible, what Peirce called indecomposables, 
since they are integral qualities or ideas in themselves

Regarding - 1ns -  matter, life and ideas.
These appear to me to be complex multi level hierarchies. While matter without 
life can not have ideas, life and ideas are somewhat acceptable as cognitive 
life (most of it is at the life's level to carry-on life's cycle.), but there 
are precursors to matter and life, namely some seed of becoming (desire) or 
consciousness before matter and life originate!

II.  Also what is the role of Monad, is it like origin in a multidimensional 
space, is it affine, Euclidean, Hilbert space, or a space later defined in 
terms of sets and groups?


Thanks.
Ravi
(Dr. Ravi Sharma)
MagicJack US 3133935264
India mobile 011 91 96366 58888





On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 6:38 AM Mauro Bertani 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi Mike,
about what you wrote

On Sat, 6 Mar 2021 at 00:30, 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

Then this strip – now defined as containing in general form everything we know 
about epistemology and semantics and hierarchy and abstraction and taxonomy and 
conceptual structure – goes through this mysterious “twist” which “closes the 
space” and forms this amazing “closed loop” which seems to contain all of 
cognitive science within its single boundary.  All elements within that 
boundary are defined as “intervals” – bounded ranges with lowest and highest 
values in some dimension.  By virtue of “the twist”, the entire loop becomes a 
single boundary – a single “edge” -- which contains nested it (bounded within 
it) within all possible taxonomic distinctions in their general form.  As a 
single boundary, the entire structure takes the same form as “the real number 
line” – it IS “the continuum” in a closed loop form.  When seen in the flat 
plane, the “upper ontology” is the unbounded infinite and the ultimate meaning 
of “unit”, and the lowest level approaching infinitesimal differentiation, and 
the taxonomic categories we want to position at the bottom of our taxonomic 
hierarchy.  When we close the loop, the infinite and the infinitesimal are 
mapped straight into each other as one continuous edge – where their 
differences are only apparent when viewed in the flat two dimensional 
perspective.  Rotated through the twist, all the differences disappear and all 
that remains is unity.  I think this is analogous to the Buddhist cosmology of 
“the beginningless universe” – maybe it’s the same idea.  There are books out 
there on the subject “A universe from nothing”.  I think these are all related.

 I made a theory that partly reflects your vision. Very briefly it is 
represented by this diagram

<structure.png>

there is the concept of line and continuum. Let's assume we have a hierarchical 
tree with simple concepts and a hierarchical tree with propositions. We combine 
these two trees according to the phrases Subject - Predicate - Object. We get a 
number. This number can be related in new subject-predicted-object phrases.. We 
thus obtain increasingly complex concepts, represented by increasingly large 
numbers, which are arranged on the line according to their complexity. similar 
a https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_set aand 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reeb_graph .
I hope this can help you.
Mauro




From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> On 
Behalf Of Mike Bergman
Sent: Thursday, March 4, 2021 8:23 PM
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>; 
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>; 
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [ontolog-forum] Hierarchy, a la Peirce


Hi Bruce,

I am glad this is a line of discourse you want to pursue (and have pursued 
since at least 1994 as your link indicates). I'm happy to engage on any 
questions or topics; there are many other Peirce afficiandos on these lists 
that also have helpful insights. For now, I only comment on one of your points 
below:
On 3/4/2021 9:31 AM, [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> wrote:

Wow.  I love this.  I've been writing on this subject forever -- saying more or 
less the same things and citing the same authors -- e.g.,  Herbert Simon.  I'm 
going to print your article, Mike, and take a close look at it.  Back in the 
early days, I bought every book there was on Hierarchy.  You make basic points 
in your opening that I’d say pave the way towards a very powerful general 
theory of epistemology.



The basic themes you outline in this article are at the essence of my notion of 
“Closed Loop Interval Ontology” – which is hierarchical exactly as you 
describe, with the addition that the framework is defined as a closed loop 
interconnecting these “levels” into a single closed mathematical structure.



My early stuff on this subject is here: 
http://originresearch.com<http://originresearch.com/>



The trick here seems to be – that this thesis is so powerful, it becomes 
combinatorically explosive – heading towards the fabled “theory of everything” 
– maybe in explicit epistemological detail.



Interesting that you say that “natural hierarchies are real” – which opens the 
way to some additional complexity or levels of inclusion.  Maybe there is a 
“hierarchical relationship” across levels of reality, such that the kind of 
practical-real-world “reality” defined by Barry Smith can be mapped directly 
into an absolutely abstract model which I would say is a “science of the 
artificial”, as Herbert Simon might have described it.  “Does absolute 
abstraction exist in nature”?

My own view is that Peirce's universal categories of Firstness, Secondness, and 
Thirdness provide this level of "absolute abstraction [that] exists in nature". 
I don't know if you realize that some of your earlier references to Ogden and 
Richards<http://originresearch.com/sd/sd4.cfm> were actually a paraphrase of 
Peirce's insights. My own research focus has been on trying to understand the 
'mindset' of Peirce's universal categories, expressed in perhaps a 100 
different ways in his writings, that sets a frame of reference for tackling 
knowledge representation (epistemological) questions at virtually any level. 
Ogden and Richards picked up on one with respect to meaning, but there are 
other examples galore across Peirce's writings.

What Peirce really offers, IMO, is a way to break away from either-or Cartesian 
mindsets that always pit issues as win-lose propositions, and ignore the "fact" 
that one can both be a realist and an idealist. By accepting the reality of 
absolute chance we are also removing false dichotomies between determinism and 
evolution. As with wave-particle duality or quantum v classic physics, 
Cartesian thinking is a cultural and intellectual posture that leaves us 
stymied and frustrated. I much prefer the trichotomous view of actuality 
bracketed by chance and continuity, the essence of Peirce's universal 
categories.

BTW, there is no reason why this viewpoint can not inform the structure and 
basis of a top-level (upper) ontology. (One that I humbly feels offers an 
integrative framework for ANY knowledge graph or ontology.) That is exactly the 
approach we have taken with our KBpedia<https://kbpedia.org/> knowledge 
structure, and its top-level KBpedia Knowledge 
Ontology<https://kbpedia.org/docs/kko-upper-structure/> (KKO).

Best, Mike



Fascinating article and project, Mike.  A lot to talk about.



Thanks!



- Bruce






Hierarchies — real or artificial — abound to help us organize our world. A 
hierarchy places items into a general order, where more ‘general’ is also more 
‘abstract’. The etymology of the word hierarchy is grounded in notions of 
religious and social rank. This article, after a broad historical review, 
focuses on knowledge systems, an interloper of the term hierarchy since at 
least the 1800s. Hierarchies in knowledge systems include taxonomies, 
classification systems, or thesauri in library and information science, and 
systems for representing information and knowledge to computers, notably 
ontologies, knowledge graphs, and knowledge representation languages. 
Hierarchies are the logical underpinning of inference and reasoning in these 
systems, as well as the scaffolding for classification and inheritance. 
Hierarchies in knowledge systems express subsumption relations that have many 
flexible variants, which we can represent algorithmically, and thus 
computationally. This article dissects the dimensions of that variability, 
leading to a proposed typology of hierarchies useful to knowledge systems. The 
article argues through a perspective informed by Charles Sanders Peirce that 
natural hierarchies are real, can be logically determined, and are the 
appropriate basis for knowledge systems. Description logics and semantic 
language standards such as RDF or OWL reflect this perspective, importantly 
through their open-world logic and vocabularies for generalized subsumption 
hierarchies. Recent research suggests possible mechanisms for the emergence of 
natural hierarchies involving the nexus of chance, evolution, entropy, free 
energy, and information theory.





Bruce Schuman

Santa Barbara CA USA

[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> / 805-705-9174

www.origin.org<http://www.origin.org/> / 
www.integralontology.net<http://www.integralontology.net/>





-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> 
<[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> On 
Behalf Of Mike Bergman
Sent: Wednesday, March 3, 2021 7:57 PM
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>; 
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: [ontolog-forum] Hierarchy, a la Peirce



Hi All,



I am pleased my open-access paper on hierarchy in knowledge systems, as 
informed by my understanding of CS Peirce, has been published by IEKO:

https://www.isko.org/cyclo/hierarchy. I hope you enjoy!



Thanks, Mike



--
All contributions to this forum are covered by an open-source license.
For information about the wiki, the license, and how to subscribe or
unsubscribe to the forum, see http://ontologforum.org/info/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ontolog-forum" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to 
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ontolog-forum/71e3a755-a102-6c0b-50a8-6fbcc6de2821%40mkbergman.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ontolog-forum/71e3a755-a102-6c0b-50a8-6fbcc6de2821%40mkbergman.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
--
All contributions to this forum are covered by an open-source license.
For information about the wiki, the license, and how to subscribe or
unsubscribe to the forum, see http://ontologforum.org/info/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ontolog-forum" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to 
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ontolog-forum/007701d71217%2472829ff0%245787dfd0%24%40cox.net<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ontolog-forum/007701d71217%2472829ff0%245787dfd0%24%40cox.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.


--
"[..] events are primarily linguistic or cognitive in nature. That is, the 
world does not really contain events. Rather, events are the way by which 
agents classify certain useful and relevant patterns of change."
Allen and Fergusson

"No, no. History of Eternity. At first I wanted to find every single one of the 
buyers to apologize because of the book and also to thank them for what they 
had done. There is an explanation for that. If you think of thirty-seven 
people—those people are real, I mean every one of them has a face of his own, a 
family, he lives on his own particular street. Why, if you sell, say two 
thousand copies, it is the same thing as if you had sold nothing at all because 
two thousand is too vast—I mean, for the imagination to grasp. While 
thirty-seven people—perhaps thirty-seven are too many, perhaps seventeen would 
have been better or even seven—but still thirty-seven are still within the 
scope of one's imagination."
http://www.theparisreview.org/interviews/4331/the-art-of-fiction-no-39-jorge-luis-borges
--
All contributions to this forum are covered by an open-source license.
For information about the wiki, the license, and how to subscribe or
unsubscribe to the forum, see http://ontologforum.org/info/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ontolog-forum" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to 
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ontolog-forum/CAAhN2n4ri4HDOeXz1s782B851_vj34ybbxsC8tpC5iqdmb97iA%40mail.gmail.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ontolog-forum/CAAhN2n4ri4HDOeXz1s782B851_vj34ybbxsC8tpC5iqdmb97iA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
--
All contributions to this forum are covered by an open-source license.
For information about the wiki, the license, and how to subscribe or
unsubscribe to the forum, see http://ontologforum.org/info/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ontolog-forum" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to 
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ontolog-forum/CAAN3-5em2xpNwW_Q45_nS2AwSoUMLGBdsa%2BN0gi07J7n1uk5kA%40mail.gmail.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ontolog-forum/CAAN3-5em2xpNwW_Q45_nS2AwSoUMLGBdsa%2BN0gi07J7n1uk5kA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

--
__________________________________________

Michael K. Bergman
Cognonto Corporation
319.621.5225
skype:michaelkbergman
http://cognonto.com<http://cognonto.com/>
http://mkbergman.com<http://mkbergman.com/>
http://www.linkedin.com/in/mkbergman
__________________________________________

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON 
PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to 
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> .
► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to 
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with no subject, and with the 
sole line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at 
http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm .
► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP;  moderated by Gary Richmond;  and 
co-managed by him and Ben Udell.


_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON 
PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to [email protected] . 
► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to [email protected] 
with no subject, and with the sole line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of 
the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm .
► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP;  moderated by Gary Richmond;  and 
co-managed by him and Ben Udell.

Reply via email to