Auke, AVB: I rename this thread semiotics. To be frank, I try to find out what to focus on.
GF: OK, you don’t want to focus on Phaneroscopy, Iconoscopy, and Peircean Category Theory, as I did in my post. Fair enough, and I suppose your pointing out of a self-contradiction (“conflict”) in ET’s paragraph can count as “semiotics,” and so can your remarks about my post. But those remarks are inaccurate, at least here: AVB: 2. What is missing is a consideration of the quote in the context of the paragraph itself and of the mail in its whole. GF: The first part is not true: I did quote the whole paragraph and analyzed it as a whole, precisely to show the context of the misquotation (i.e. of the token of the type of phenomenon I was focussing on.) The still larger context of “the mail in its whole” was not relevant to the phaneroscopic/iconoscopic analysis, and I don’t think it’s fair to blame me for doing that instead of the “semiotic” analysis that you prefer. Your analysis of the paragraph seems to focus mainly on the expectations created in the reader’s mind as he is reading it, and you claim that the reader would “expect the error at the end” because of the earlier contradictions. Maybe so, but to what end are you making that claim? It looks to me as if you are suggesting or implying an answer to the question which, as Gary R observed, only Edwina can answer. As for your questions at the end, AVB: Who is the one that tears quotes out of the context? As Gary R pointed out, quoting Wikipedia, everybody who quotes part of a prior text takes the quote out of its original context. But “The problem here is not the removal of a quote from its original context per se (as all quotes are), but to the quoter's decision to exclude from the excerpt certain nearby phrases or sentences (which become "context" by virtue of the exclusion) that serve to clarify the intentions behind the selected words.” AVB: To what end? GF: You already know what my purpose was, or at least I’ve made it quite explicit. (If you are still asking about my purpose, that seems to imply that you don’t believe me, although you don’t say why.) As for your purpose in taking quotes out of context, I hazarded a guess above, but it’s only a guess, as you haven’t made it explicit. And as for Edwina’s purpose in taking quotes out of context, I have not hazarded a guess, and again, only she can answer that. Gary f. From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Auke van Breemen Sent: 31-Mar-21 07:45 To: Peirce-L <[email protected]> Subject: [PEIRCE-L] Semiotics, was : RE: Phaneroscopy, Iconoscopy, and Peircean Category Theory Gary F, I rename this thread semiotics. To be frank, I try to find out what to focus on. If I understand you well, you focus on: And since matter-is-mind within Peircean analysis, then, this triadic process is operative throughout the physical, chemical, biological and conceptual realms. 'Matter is effete mind" 6.25. And "what we call matter is not completely dead bu is merely mind hidebound with habits" 6.158. "he whole action of the mind [is] a part of the physical universe" 6.61 --- But if I look at your analysis, I would say you focus on only one sentence: "he whole action of the mind [is] a part of the physical universe" 6.61 -- I is by comparing this sentence with the source text, that you draw your conclusions. Two remarks can be made: 1. Since the listers know, or are easily able to find the whole mail, they know that it is Edwina about whom the unfavorable conclusions are drawn. 2. What is missing is a consideration of the quote in the context of the paragraph itself and of the mail in its whole. If we take the paragraph, the first thing that strikes my eye is the conflict between the first sentence and the last. At least at one side of the pharagraph one would expect an error. Given the greater weight of first sentences above latter sentences in a paragraph, and looking at the repetition 'matter is effete mind', I expect the error at the end. Add to this that there also is a typo, and we may assume a moment of lessend attention. That raises the questions: Who is the one that tears quotes out of the context? and, To what end? Best, Auke van Breemen Op 31 maart 2021 om 13:07 schreef [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> : Auke, yes, that is the message that I quoted a paragraph from to provide a concrete text for “phaneroscopic” analysis. My analysis was not of the whole “mail” but of the paragraph containing the misquotation, since that was the immediate context of the phenomenon I chose to focus on. This has never been an “issue”, so I don’t see the point of your question to Gary R. Are you suggesting that the whole message, or even its author, should have been the subject of my analysis? Gary f.
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