Gary F,

You know very well that we are not discussing Phaneroscopy, iconoscopy and 
peircean category theory. We are conversing about debating morals.


You wrote:

and you claim that the reader would “expect the error at the end” because of 
the earlier contradictions.

-

Where did I claim something 'because of the earlier contradictions'? You 
suggest with this passage that besides the conflict between the last sentence 
and the preceding sentences, I am of the opinion that the earlier sentences are 
already contradictionary. 

Auke


> Op 31 maart 2021 om 14:51 schreef [email protected]:
> 
> 
>     Auke,
> 
>     AVB: I rename this thread semiotics. To be frank, I try to find out what 
> to focus on.
> 
>     GF: OK, you don’t want to focus on Phaneroscopy, Iconoscopy, and Peircean 
> Category Theory, as I did in my post. Fair enough, and I suppose your 
> pointing out of a self-contradiction (“conflict”) in ET’s paragraph can count 
> as “semiotics,” and so can your remarks about my post. But those remarks are 
> inaccurate, at least here:
> 
>     AVB: 2. What is missing is a consideration of the quote in the context of 
> the paragraph itself and of the mail in its whole.
> 
>     GF: The first part is not true: I did quote the whole paragraph and 
> analyzed it as a whole, precisely to show the context of the misquotation 
> (i.e. of the token of the type of phenomenon I was focussing on.) The still 
> larger context of “the mail in its whole” was not relevant to the 
> phaneroscopic/iconoscopic analysis, and I don’t think it’s fair to blame me 
> for doing that instead of the “semiotic” analysis that you prefer.
> 
>     Your analysis of the paragraph seems to focus mainly on the expectations 
> created in the reader’s mind as he is reading it, and you claim that the 
> reader would “expect the error at the end” because of the earlier 
> contradictions. Maybe so, but to what end are you making that claim? It looks 
> to me as if you are suggesting or implying an answer to the question which, 
> as Gary R observed, only Edwina can answer.
> 
>     As for your questions at the end,
> 
>     AVB: Who is the one that tears quotes out of the context?
> 
>     As Gary R pointed out, quoting Wikipedia, everybody who quotes part of a 
> prior text takes the quote out of its original context. But “The problem here 
> is not the removal of a quote from its original context per se (as all quotes 
> are), but to the quoter's decision to exclude from the excerpt certain nearby 
> phrases or sentences (which become "context" by virtue of the exclusion) that 
> serve to clarify the intentions behind the selected words.”
> 
>     AVB: To what end?
> 
>     GF: You already know what my purpose was, or at least I’ve made it quite 
> explicit. (If you are still asking about my purpose, that seems to imply that 
> you don’t believe me, although you don’t say why.) As for your purpose in 
> taking quotes out of context, I hazarded a guess above, but it’s only a 
> guess, as you haven’t made it explicit. And as for Edwina’s purpose in taking 
> quotes out of context, I have not hazarded a guess, and again, only she can 
> answer that.
> 
>     Gary f.
> 
>      
> 
>     From: [email protected] 
> <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Auke van Breemen
>     Sent: 31-Mar-21 07:45
>     To: Peirce-L <[email protected]>
>     Subject: [PEIRCE-L] Semiotics, was : RE: Phaneroscopy, Iconoscopy, and 
> Peircean Category Theory
> 
>      
> 
>     Gary F,
> 
>     I rename this thread semiotics. To be frank, I try to find out what to 
> focus on.  If I understand you well, you focus on:
> 
>     And since matter-is-mind within Peircean analysis, then, this triadic 
> process is operative throughout the physical, chemical, biological and 
> conceptual realms. 'Matter is effete mind" 6.25. And "what we call matter is 
> not completely dead bu is merely mind hidebound with habits" 6.158. "he whole 
> action of the mind [is] a part of the physical universe" 6.61
> 
>     ---
> 
>     But if I look at your analysis, I would say you focus on only one 
> sentence:
> 
>     "he whole action of the mind [is] a part of the physical universe" 6.61
> 
>     --
> 
>     I is by comparing this sentence with the source text, that you draw your 
> conclusions. Two remarks can be made:
> 
>     1. Since the listers know, or are easily able to find the whole mail, 
> they know that it is Edwina about whom the unfavorable conclusions are drawn.
> 
>     2. What is missing is a consideration of the quote in the context of the 
> paragraph itself and of the mail in its whole.
> 
>     If we take the paragraph, the first thing that strikes my eye is the 
> conflict between the first sentence and the last. At least at one side of the 
> pharagraph one would expect an error. Given the greater weight of first 
> sentences above latter sentences in a paragraph, and looking at the 
> repetition 'matter is effete mind', I expect the error at the end. Add to 
> this that there also is a typo, and we may assume a moment of lessend 
> attention. 
> 
>     That raises the questions:
> 
>     Who is the one that tears quotes out of the context?
> 
>     and,
> 
>     To what end? 
> 
>     Best,
> 
>     Auke van Breemen
> 
>         > > 
> >         Op 31 maart 2021 om 13:07 schreef [email protected] 
> > mailto:[email protected] :
> > 
> >         Auke, yes, that is the message that I quoted a paragraph from to 
> > provide a concrete text for “phaneroscopic” analysis. My analysis was not 
> > of the whole “mail” but of the paragraph containing the misquotation, since 
> > that was the immediate context of the phenomenon I chose to focus on. This 
> > has never been an “issue”, so I don’t see the point of your question to 
> > Gary R. Are you suggesting that the whole message, or even its author, 
> > should have been the subject of my analysis?
> > 
> >         Gary f.
> > 
> >     > 


 

> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
>     ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON 
> PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to [email protected] 
> .
>     ► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to 
> [email protected] with no subject, and with the sole line "UNSubscribe 
> PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at 
> http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm .
>     ► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP; moderated by Gary Richmond; and 
> co-managed by him and Ben Udell.
> 


 
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON 
PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to [email protected] . 
► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to [email protected] 
with no subject, and with the sole line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of 
the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm .
► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP;  moderated by Gary Richmond;  and 
co-managed by him and Ben Udell.

Reply via email to