By sonata form, of course, I'm referring to the use of development and
B-themes to transform the listener's response to the primary theme when it
reappears during recapitulation.  This is not the same as "sonatas" in the
sense of solo or duo chamber pieces.  Bach's sonatas are wonderful, but they
offer a sequence of interrelated, unfolding insights, not a dramatic narrative
in Haydn's sense.  Bach was a master of narrative in his vocal works, but the
text drives the narrative, not the music that embellishes and responds to it.

As for Haydn vs Bach, why choose?  Both were stupendous creators and
innovators, completely dedicated to music.  I have to admit that my ability to
appreciate Haydn depends on suppressing a strong dislike for the classical
Viennese idiom (same problem with Mozart) -- a problem I don't have with JSB
-- but it's worth doing for the high level of invention and intelligence in
just about everything Joe Haydn did.

As for Bach, I remember an interview with the organist Helmut Walcha, who said
that listening to Bach makes people believe more deeply whatever it is they
already believe.  Catholics, said Walcha, intensify their belief in
Catholicism, Lutherans in Lutheranism, and Communists in Communism.

Peter

Patrick Bond wrote:

> Hey Peter, what about baroque sonatas? Surely Bach far more
> firmly reflected the compulsion to work out themes in all their
> permutations, and hence his legacy is a more appropriate metaphor for
> narrative and transformation. The classical era introduced us to a
> variety of themes, often thoroughly and purposefully disconnected,
> often purely decorative and meaningless. Give me Bach over Haydn any
> day, comrade.
>
> > Moreover, the sonata form (which he more or less
> > invented) mirrors the novel as a formal expression of the transformation
> > of individual consciousness as it makes its way through the world.
> > (Here I am arguing by homology, but in music I think it makes more
> > sense.)  Music passes definitively from decoration to narrative.



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