The short version of my own answer (which I am sending you) is that there
are collective acion problem in getting this started, that it would take
powerful political actors like unions and ultimately the government to get a
mass coop movement off the ground. The standard right wing answer, that
coops are less efficient, is demonstrably false. --jks
>
>thank you for your valuable addition to the co-op discussion. all kinds of
>cooperatives are welcome, including industrials.
>
>seems to me that co-ops are an ideal way for the socialists and their
>suffering proletariat to conquer the world.
>
>
>assumption: no legal impediments for co-ops of any type.
>
>then,
>
>1. co-ops extract less surplus value for investments than profit
>businesses, therefore they can offer better wages and lower prices.
>
>2. with higher wages and lower prices, they attract better people, sales
>expand and they use the surplus value to grow larger.
>
>3. with better people, some of these employees make competitive
>innovations/inventions using their co-op surplus value to keep up with the
>innovations of profit businesses.
>
>4. with larger co-ops they buy more economically (economies of scale) to
>reduce unit costs and prices, increase wages, increase co-op surplus and
>expand indefinitely.
>
>5. ERGO, the capitalists are beaten at their own game and whole world
>turns
>into one big socialist co-op. Q.E.D.
>
>however, since co-ops have not conquered the world and since i haven't
>become rich and famous for my brilliant idea, then there must be something
>wrong with it.
>
>what is that?
>
>norm
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ken Hanly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 10:05 PM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: [PEN-L:5554] Re: Re: co-ops
>
>
>I missed the earlier part of this discussion. You must be talkiing of some
>type of production co-op. THere are co-operative financial institutions:
>credit unions, or caisse populaires. There are retail co-ops, agricultural
>marketing co-ops, dairy co-ops, housing co-oops and on and on. Go to any
>small town near where I am and the main financial institution will not be a
>bank but a credit union. The main or only grocery store in town will be a
>co-op. I belong to four retail co-ops and two credit unions. Our local
>credit union amalgamated with two others. THe growth increases our
>advantages rather than losing them. We now have 24 hour no fee access to an
>ATM rather than paying 50 cents for each transaction formerly. It may be
>that some very large urban credit unions lose a lot of advantages of
>smaller
>credit unions I couldn't say. But if they do why would they continue
>growing?
> Cheers. Ken Hanly
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Jim Devine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 1:33 PM
>Subject: [PEN-L:5506] Re: co-ops
>
>
> > At 01:55 PM 12/4/00 -0500, you wrote:
> > >if co-ops can successfully give people what they want at a price that
> > >excludes "surplus value", then why haven't they become a major factor
>in
> > >republican-capitalist societies?
> >
> > there are at least two reasons:
> >
> > (1) if they grow, they lose most or all of their advantages;
> >
> > (2) banks won't lend to them, except at higher interest rates.
> >
> > Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] & http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
> >
>
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