Eugene,
I can see that it is worded in an unclear manner.
In this I am partly going with the literature that all
interprets it to mean that he considers (positive)
discounting to be "ethically indefensible." I have
seen Ramsey's name used in connection with this
argument on quite a few occasions. He is probably
the first "respectable" economist to make the argument
within the context of a formal model.
One such secondary source is
Kenneth Arrow, "Intergenerational Equity and the Rate
of Discount in Long-Term Social Investment," in _Contemporary
Economic Issues: Economic Behaviour and Design, Vol. 4,
Papers and Proceedings of the Eleventh World Congress of
the International Economic Association_, ed. by Murat R. Sertel,
1999, London: Macmillan, pp. 89-102. He discusses Ramsey's
view on p. 95.
Barkley Rosser
-----Original Message-----
From: Eugene Coyle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thursday, March 01, 2001 4:31 PM
Subject: [PEN-L:8571] Re: Re: Re: Re: [Fwd: Re: query: Frank Ramsey]
>My confusion, I guess, is which practice Ramsey is saying is "ethically
>indefensible." Is "not discounting" ethically indefensible? Or is it
>discounting which is "ethically indefensible"? I should have paid more
>attention the year they were teaching diagramming sentences. I didn't, so
I'm
>still confused.
>
>Gene Coyle
>
>"J. Barkley Rosser, Jr." wrote:
>
>> Eugene,
>> To "not discount" means to treat the "future enjoyments"
>> as equal in value to present ones. That means using a
>> zero discount rate.
>> There are a lot of people in environmental and ecological
>> economics who argue for this, along with a lot of others,
>> including some from the Marxian tradition. There are a lot
>> of issues floating around with this.
>> Ramsey influenced Pigou who in 1932 complained
>> about the "defective telescopic faculty" that people use when
>> contemplating the future (and discounting, that is, devaluing it).
>> Barkley Rosser
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Eugene Coyle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Date: Thursday, March 01, 2001 2:48 PM
>> Subject: [PEN-L:8568] Re: Re: [Fwd: Re: query: Frank Ramsey]
>>
>> >As I read the quoted sentence I take it to mean discount rates should be
>> higher
>> >than, not zero.
>> >
>> >Clarify?
>> >
>> >Gene Coyle
>> >
>> >"J. Barkley Rosser, Jr." wrote:
>> >
>> >> michael,
>> >> "It is assumed that we do not discount later enjoyments
>> >> in comparison with earlier ones, a practice which is ethically
>> >> indefensible and arises merely from the weakness of the
>> >> imagination."
>> >> Frank P. Ramsey, "A Mathematical Theory of Saving," Economic
>> >> Journal, 1928, vol. 38, no. 152, pp. 543-559, quote appearing
>> >> on the first page.
>> >> Essay also reprinted in D.H. Mellor, ed., _Foundations: Essays
>> >> in Philosophy, Logic, Mathematics and Economics_, 1978,
>> >> Atlantic Highlands, NJ: Humanities Press, pp. 261-281, where it
>> >> appears on p. 261.
>> >> Barkley Rosser
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: michael perelman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >> Date: Thursday, March 01, 2001 1:01 AM
>> >> Subject: [Fwd: [PEN-L:8500] Re: query: Frank Ramsey]
>> >>
>> >> >> He is also famous for arguing on ethical grounds
>> >> >> that discount rates should be zero.
>> >> >
>> >> >I don't recall that in the 1928 article. Where did he say that?
>> >> >
>> >> >"J. Barkley Rosser, Jr." wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Frank Ramsey was a mathematical growth
>> >> >> theorist and philosopher at Cambridge who died
>> >> >> in his 20s in the 1920s. He was the first to posit
>> >> >> a growth theory model with an infinite time horizon,
>> >> >> I believe. His "Mathematical Theory of Saving" is
>> >> >> very influential in growth theory.
>> >> >
>> >> >> Offhand, I am not sure what a "Ramseyite" approach
>> >> >> would be, but I suggest that it involves infinite horizon
>> >> >> optimal growth models. Ramsey was very influential]
>> >> >> on Keynes and even people like Wittgenstein, but that
>> >> >> side of him does not appear in his most famous paper
>> >> >> (I think it appeared in the Economic Journal).
>> >> >> Barkley Rosser
>> >> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> From: Jim Devine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >> >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >> >> Date: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 12:17 PM
>> >> >> Subject: [PEN-L:8480] query: Frank Ramsey
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >Yesterday, I received an e-mail advertising a macroeconomics
textbook
>> >> that
>> >> >> >was based on the ideas of Frank Ramsey. It wasn't Keynesian or
>> >> monetarist,
>> >> >> >but Ramseyite (to paraphrase the blurb). Does anyone know anything
>> about
>> >> >> >Ramsey and his ideas? It sounds like he totally ignored the factor
of
>> >> >> >uncertainty in making decisions about the future, but I don't know
>> >> anything
>> >> >> >about him.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] & http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >--
>> >> >
>> >> >Michael Perelman
>> >> >Economics Department
>> >> >California State University
>> >> >Chico, CA 95929
>> >> >
>> >> >Tel. 530-898-5321
>> >> >E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >
>> >
>
>
