Thanks, Barkley. Now I have to think about this. It is kind of an attack on
consumption and support for environmental protection, no?
Gene
"J. Barkley Rosser, Jr." wrote:
> Eugene,
> I can see that it is worded in an unclear manner.
> In this I am partly going with the literature that all
> interprets it to mean that he considers (positive)
> discounting to be "ethically indefensible." I have
> seen Ramsey's name used in connection with this
> argument on quite a few occasions. He is probably
> the first "respectable" economist to make the argument
> within the context of a formal model.
> One such secondary source is
> Kenneth Arrow, "Intergenerational Equity and the Rate
> of Discount in Long-Term Social Investment," in _Contemporary
> Economic Issues: Economic Behaviour and Design, Vol. 4,
> Papers and Proceedings of the Eleventh World Congress of
> the International Economic Association_, ed. by Murat R. Sertel,
> 1999, London: Macmillan, pp. 89-102. He discusses Ramsey's
> view on p. 95.
> Barkley Rosser
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eugene Coyle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Thursday, March 01, 2001 4:31 PM
> Subject: [PEN-L:8571] Re: Re: Re: Re: [Fwd: Re: query: Frank Ramsey]
>
> >My confusion, I guess, is which practice Ramsey is saying is "ethically
> >indefensible." Is "not discounting" ethically indefensible? Or is it
> >discounting which is "ethically indefensible"? I should have paid more
> >attention the year they were teaching diagramming sentences. I didn't, so
> I'm
> >still confused.
> >
> >Gene Coyle
> >
> >"J. Barkley Rosser, Jr." wrote:
> >
> >> Eugene,
> >> To "not discount" means to treat the "future enjoyments"
> >> as equal in value to present ones. That means using a
> >> zero discount rate.
> >> There are a lot of people in environmental and ecological
> >> economics who argue for this, along with a lot of others,
> >> including some from the Marxian tradition. There are a lot
> >> of issues floating around with this.
> >> Ramsey influenced Pigou who in 1932 complained
> >> about the "defective telescopic faculty" that people use when
> >> contemplating the future (and discounting, that is, devaluing it).
> >> Barkley Rosser
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Eugene Coyle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Date: Thursday, March 01, 2001 2:48 PM
> >> Subject: [PEN-L:8568] Re: Re: [Fwd: Re: query: Frank Ramsey]
> >>
> >> >As I read the quoted sentence I take it to mean discount rates should be
> >> higher
> >> >than, not zero.
> >> >
> >> >Clarify?
> >> >
> >> >Gene Coyle
> >> >
> >> >"J. Barkley Rosser, Jr." wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> michael,
> >> >> "It is assumed that we do not discount later enjoyments
> >> >> in comparison with earlier ones, a practice which is ethically
> >> >> indefensible and arises merely from the weakness of the
> >> >> imagination."
> >> >> Frank P. Ramsey, "A Mathematical Theory of Saving," Economic
> >> >> Journal, 1928, vol. 38, no. 152, pp. 543-559, quote appearing
> >> >> on the first page.
> >> >> Essay also reprinted in D.H. Mellor, ed., _Foundations: Essays
> >> >> in Philosophy, Logic, Mathematics and Economics_, 1978,
> >> >> Atlantic Highlands, NJ: Humanities Press, pp. 261-281, where it
> >> >> appears on p. 261.
> >> >> Barkley Rosser
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: michael perelman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> >> Date: Thursday, March 01, 2001 1:01 AM
> >> >> Subject: [Fwd: [PEN-L:8500] Re: query: Frank Ramsey]
> >> >>
> >> >> >> He is also famous for arguing on ethical grounds
> >> >> >> that discount rates should be zero.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I don't recall that in the 1928 article. Where did he say that?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"J. Barkley Rosser, Jr." wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Frank Ramsey was a mathematical growth
> >> >> >> theorist and philosopher at Cambridge who died
> >> >> >> in his 20s in the 1920s. He was the first to posit
> >> >> >> a growth theory model with an infinite time horizon,
> >> >> >> I believe. His "Mathematical Theory of Saving" is
> >> >> >> very influential in growth theory.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Offhand, I am not sure what a "Ramseyite" approach
> >> >> >> would be, but I suggest that it involves infinite horizon
> >> >> >> optimal growth models. Ramsey was very influential]
> >> >> >> on Keynes and even people like Wittgenstein, but that
> >> >> >> side of him does not appear in his most famous paper
> >> >> >> (I think it appeared in the Economic Journal).
> >> >> >> Barkley Rosser
> >> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> >> From: Jim Devine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> >> >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> >> >> Date: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 12:17 PM
> >> >> >> Subject: [PEN-L:8480] query: Frank Ramsey
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >Yesterday, I received an e-mail advertising a macroeconomics
> textbook
> >> >> that
> >> >> >> >was based on the ideas of Frank Ramsey. It wasn't Keynesian or
> >> >> monetarist,
> >> >> >> >but Ramseyite (to paraphrase the blurb). Does anyone know anything
> >> about
> >> >> >> >Ramsey and his ideas? It sounds like he totally ignored the factor
> of
> >> >> >> >uncertainty in making decisions about the future, but I don't know
> >> >> anything
> >> >> >> >about him.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] & http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >--
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Michael Perelman
> >> >> >Economics Department
> >> >> >California State University
> >> >> >Chico, CA 95929
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Tel. 530-898-5321
> >> >> >E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> >
> >> >
> >
> >
